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Hex 58 - Joyousness, the way forward?

Magnus

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What is the way forward for me with regards to X? Hex 58 unchanging.

I can understand that this hexagram may mean good things to come, but I don't see it suggesting a way forward such as any sorts of steps or actions to take. Does anyone have any experience with this hexagram in unchanging form (or otherwise, if you think this may also be helpful for my unchanging reading) that might give insights?

It just seems a bit confusing to me, and maybe its telling me something other than what I asked, for all I know?
 

ginnie

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R.L. Wing writes about hexagram 58 unchanging: "The unchanging hexagram bodes a continuing success, which is dependent upon your relations with others. Keep this in mind, particularly in regard to the object of your inquiry. Your goals can come to fruition in an atmosphere of gentleness and goodwill toward others. Difficulties will arise now if your endeavors are toward the self-sufficient."

So, your success is dependent on two things: You need to be kind and gentle in encouraging X towards their individual goals. But even this will have no effect if X is "self-sufficient," not open to be influenced.
 

Magnus

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Thanks, Ginnie. If X is open and able to be influenced, I should focus on kindly and gently encouraging X toward reaching X's goals. Sounds really straight forward. I'm not sure X is currently that open to be influenced, but that doesn't mean the reading can't still apply at a time in the near future as things change, am I right?
 
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58 is a process, not so much an accomplishment. The primary process is exchanging one another's pools. While it might be nice if all of that were joyful, but where there is joy there is also melancholy, which is found in a few change lines depicting unproductive or even harmful joy, which turn out to be not joy but sorrow. So this exchange is learning about one another, reflecting upon one another, sharing with one another. The outcome will be what the outcome will be. I see no predictions here.
 

ginnie

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I'm not sure X is currently that open to be influenced, but that doesn't mean the reading can't still apply at a time in the near future as things change, am I right?

Why is it that you think she's not open to be influenced?
 

Magnus

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X seems to be really focused on another person, who she's annoyed she's focused on and doesn't want to be thinking about apparently. Her mind has been side tracked when I talk to her, so it just feels like she isn't open to influence.
 

Magnus

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I found this reading interesting... "Should I proceed with this relationship?" 61.2.3 > 37. In another thread I was reading line 3 on this reading suggests not to rely on others opinions, and I know that others sometimes wonder about X, so I sometimes begin wondering if I'm wrong to feel as I do and if I should back up and just not bother at all. There isn't really a "relationship" as much as there is a friendship of sorts at this point, but the attraction was always strong so one could develop under the right circumstances, if she were to let down her guard. Not sure if anyone else has further thoughts on this reading, or any comments on the wording of this question, since its more of a friendship currently, maybe relationship is a not so good word to use though all relations between people would be a relationship of some sort I was thinking.
 

ginnie

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When she laughs, you laugh, and when she cries, you feel sad, too. What can I say? It's a relationship. That her mind is focused on another right now is something that might change over time. I hope so, for your sake. :)
 

Magnus

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Yeah, I do too. I'm not 100% sure if she'd choose me even if we seem perfect for each other, she's a little unclear sometimes. But she's definitely fond of me and how similar her and I are to each other.
 

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I felt the urge to ask "What do I have to learn from X?" and received hex 30 unchanging. From my reading of interpretations, it seems this might mean that perseverance toward the goal of being with her might be the answer I'm receiving. Is it that simple, or is there more to this unchanging hex than meets the eye?
 

ginnie

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R.L. Wing has this to say about hex 30:

"In an unchanging form, you must concentrate upon aligning the many elements in your life into synergetic accord in order to fully comprehend and control them. Goals, loved ones, career, and health: Do they all work together? Do they relate? Do they further one another? By achieving inner clarity, you bring enlightenment to the world."

Has the I Ching answered your question with another question?

I guess the pieces of our lives need to fit together as if they were pieces of the same puzzle, not pieces of several different puzzles. :)
 

Magnus

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Interesting response, Ginnie! I never thought about the interrelation of things. Maybe it could be saying that everything else has to fall into place at the right time in order for this aspect of my life to fall into place. Or maybe I just need to have clarity on everything for anything to happen, if that's different from what I first said.
 

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Since X is not present right now to be interacted with by me, through all readings in this thread, I decided to ask "Will X return?" and hex 59.1.2.5 came as the result changing to 27. I'm wondering if this result more or less says to move on and that this relationship is done, or at least is done temporarily, and maybe focusing on myself for now is best. Nourishing of myself kind of fits with the hex 30 reading, where when all other aspects fall into place, this one will too. Am I reading into this reading correctly about X returning?
 

ginnie

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59.1.2.5 > 27

I'm not sure about this, but I think it's saying that your getting reunited with her depends on how you speak to her. You are urged to speak with moderation. :)
 

Magnus

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That makes perfect sense to me. Jumping to anything without moderation can only add to what seems to be an easily stressful topic for her - relationships. Slow and steady wins the race so to speak. I am thinking us having a bit of a break is good (for her to be able to carry on with her life and refocus, and for me to just have space and not get too clingy/attached), but think of her often still.
 

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I thought to ask a further question, "What can I do to bring X back?" and received 48.3 > 29. I would say 29 might suggest bad things or a challenge in any attempt. I'm not understanding the rest though, as I don't feel I have any way to access X at this time, so maybe it's just saying use the supports that I have right now in order to wait things out and see what happens. Instead of seeking out what I cannot reach, hold on to what I have here and now?
 

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"Is Drunk on You video a sign to me about X?" is something I asked because I've had this intuitive feeling like it might represent some kind of sign, but it could be coincidence that there's things in it that seem to relate to my life. Anyway the result was 48.3.4 > 47 which I'm not really understanding that well.

Line 3 suggests there's water that can be drunk based on most of what I read, but it isn't being drunk. If this relates directly to my question, I'm unclear on how so.

Line 4 suggests repairs being done so there is no error or fault. Not sure how this relates to the question.
 

ginnie

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48.3 means that someone does not partake of the source, and I understand this to be the source of the satisfaction of our social and biological needs. I think that she is the ruler who is not using the well, because she is avoiding having a relationship at this time. Rather, she is healing from her previous relationship, so that may take some time.

48.3.4 > 47 speaks of needs and it speaks of exhaustion. Try to think of ways not to focus on her unavailability, since the more you think about her, the more you experience weariness and a sense of deprivation.
 

Magnus

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True, when someone isn't there or isn't available it doesn't bode well for the other person's feelings when they continue to focus on the other person. I feel this applies to me for sure, hence I wondered what Yi would say when asked "Is it beneficial for me to forget about X?" and received 37.5 > 22. Line 5 seems to speak of trust? seems positive. The hexagram is about family, so maybe saying something about having trust and she'll come around or something. It would seem to me that 22 is a positive hexagram too.
 

ginnie

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37.5

From Hilary"s I Ching:

The king enters his own home.
Do not worry. Good fortune.


"The king has the power of decision; he cannot be coerced. It is his free choice to enter into relationship; when he does so, he takes charge of his space and is responsible for who and what may enter it. With the king in his home, there is no uncertainty, no need for worry; outer relationships will be a true image of inner ones."

Maybe Yi is suggesting that you regard her as a family member. Extend to her the sort of patience and forgiveness (for not being available) that you would feel towards a beloved family member.

I think that "do not worry" is the advice. Sometimes it is translated as "do not be anxious." Oftentimes, waiting for others makes people anxious. Sometimes "do not worry" is translated as "do not be sympathetic." I think that is meant in the sense of getting carried away and overly sentimental about someone; over-reacting. This line is not easy of interpretation . . . But anyway, it does say "good fortune." And it sees someone as "the king," and that person must be you.
 

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So it's saying not necessarily to forget about her, but simply not to worry instead. Interesting. I like the mention of me possibly being the King in this, kind of in control of my own self and life. Also "outer relationships will be a true image of inner ones" since X and I reflect each other quite well as individuals/personality, maybe its suggesting something about depending how much I accept myself is how the relationship with her will flow. Not sure.
 

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I don't know if I'm right when I see "ruin" to think that it's inevitably a negative thing. But looking at some other information on this reading, suggests it's more of a "repair" - hex 18.1.2.3.6 > 24 the turning point. It all makes sense at this point that a sense of repair will be necessary for a turning point and progress to occur. Of course that's the general idea I'm seeing, there is always more detail within the lines than in the general titles of hexagrams. I feel like I'm going to be able to talk with X more soon, that's why I asked "Am I on the right track with X?" and received this 18.1.2.3.6 > 24 result. When i saw ruin on one place, it got me worried, but now I feel less worried. Is there any concerns with it though?
 

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I think your most significant moving line is 18.6. It says that now it's time to turn your mind to other, higher concerns, perhaps to your own affairs. Also, whenever we get hex 24 as the relating hexagram, that's a message from Yi to us to give the line of inquiry a rest. Take a breather from thinking about her, and don't ask any more questions about this relationship. Let the previous readings take their time to sink in and have an effect on you. It's not good to think about her too much, anyway, since you have no access to her and nothing can be done about that at the present time. You'll need to restrain yourself from asking any more questions about this for the immediate future. If you continue to ask questions about her, Yi will likely give you a hex 4 or maybe 21.6, stating that you are dim witted or hard of hearing :rofl::rofl::rofl: It's best not to pester the oracle.
 

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I'm not sure if this changes any interpretations, but the whole not having access isn't completely true anymore. The evening I asked and received 18.1.2.3.6 > 24 I also had contact from her again. She made a point of telling me that whatever feelings she had for the guy who was distracting her in previous weeks are now gone. She found that her and him are on completely different paths, and there's little interest he seems to have in her path (and I think she appreciates a guy being interested in her life, which I'm assuming most girls would really). She said she's been "set up" by a girl she knows, with this guy she hasn't met but communicates to on an app sometimes. She talks like it's not significant, like she doesn't have any real feeling for him at all and he sorta comes and goes. She also threw in "you're still perfect" into our convo on Tuesday night and I felt like her and I were the closest we'd been in a couple months again, she seems kind of free of stress and struggles. She has some time off school and that sort of thing, she basically said it's because of that that she's more relaxed. She hasn't had much contact with friends, but I acknowledged how she made a point of contacting me, and got a smile from her at that. So I'm not sure. Just to see what it would say, I asked "Should I pursue a relationship with X at this time?" and received 20.4.6 > 45. When I get meditation as a hexagram, I tend to think it means to meditate/think on/ponder things. It's also interesting that the relating hexagram seems to suggest to me that things are moving together, set in a positive direction.
 

ginnie

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You're watching her, and she's watching you. Making a note of how you are being treated and valued . . .

Her mind seems always to be moving towards other guys . . . Why is that? Why would she be telling you about her contacts with other fellas? I genuinely don't understand this.
 

Magnus

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I don't make sense of it either really. She hasn't replied to an offline message where I asked her where she was at with regard to other guys since she mentioned being over whatever feelings for one guy, and had little interest in a guy she was "set up" with. On the one hand I feel like I'd be best just to move on from her, but at the same time it feels wrong; it feels like I should persevere and that she'd notice me standing by for however long it takes for her to be with me. I really don't understand the whole situation which is probably why I maybe seem to use the I Ching as a crutch, something to rely on to potentially make some sense of everything that makes little sense to me at face value.

Thinking about the confusing aspect where she focuses on other guys but always has her eye on me, I asked "What would draw X's mind to focus on me instead of gravitating toward other guys?" and the result is 61.3 > 9. I always feel 61 is somehow telling me inside myself somehow I know the truth of the question I'm asking. If this is the case, then maybe her self esteem level indicates to her that she doesn't deserve perfection, so she's a bit weary of leaping toward something that seems perfect or "too good" for her. I could be wrong on that, but it fits with what I said above about the potential value of me persevering and eventually achieving a great relationship. I'll admit, we kind of got really close/intimate rapidly, and that admittedly bothered her to some extent. But we have an understanding of each other that neither of us is all about the intimacy even if it is a part of us. A few weeks ago I remember a conversation where I mentioned that sometimes the hardest things are the best when she said "I know we could work if we try really hard" and her reply to me saying the hardest things are sometimes the best was "True :)" Since then it just continues to bug me that she believes what I said, but hasn't jumped to the opportunity to try it out and see that it is true for real (or false, as is the alternative possibility even if I don't feel that will happen ever). I feel like I've gotten either 61 or 9, or both, in previous readings and maybe should go and look back and see if any insights bring more clarity to this.
 
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ginnie

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I asked "What would draw X's mind to focus on me instead of gravitating toward other guys?" and the result is 61.3 > 9.

The 9 seems to indicate that while your affairs are still moving forward, they cannot be realized at the present time. There is a concept connected with hexagram 9 of the littlest possible thing, something almost undetectable and invisible, that is the real conjunction where things begin to change, even if the change is imperceptible at first.

61.3 speaks of laughing sometimes and sobbing sometimes, apart from all rational considerations. This happens in couples when they share moods or get into moody states together. I have this sort of relationship with my husband, so I know about it.

Maybe she tells you about the other guys because of her astrology. She may have have her moon in Aquarius, for example. I am not an astrologer, so I am just guessing. Some time you and she might have a synastry chart done. The astrologer superimposes one natal chart upon the other and this reveals a lot about the relationship -- the hidden aspects that only spring into play when the two of you are relating to each other. This can be quite illuminating.

The 61.3 reveals a relationship with exultant highs and abysmal lows . . . an alternation of moods that can really take over everything else in your life if you're not careful. After all, there are other aspects to life than your relationship with this woman. But it may become hard to remember that sometimes. That it is problematic seems to be its drawing point. You keep waiting for it to get much better, to become more even and settled. Well, you might have to wait for a very long time. Maybe that is why she draws away: because of these highs and lows that are inherent in the relationship itself.
 

Magnus

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Interesting! I've never thought of the astrology aspect of things, but interesting to consider. I have a book related to astrology and relationships, maybe looking at that and considering our info as far as I know it would be intriguing/enlightening. After reading this, I decided to ask "What can I be doing to advance my relationship with X?" and received hex 3 unchanging. It seems like this indicates something is percolating and will eventually happen but requires patience at this time. I'm not sure if that applies to my life in general as I see possible changes in different areas of my life, or if it applies to this relationship - maybe it applies to both? It can be difficult to tell with the I Ching.
 

ginnie

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3 unchanging

Something may be percolating but it's also true that this situation is blocked at the present time. "Only by reorganizing your priorities will you transcend it," says R.L. Wing. It seems you will be doing yourself a favor to think of something or someone else, Magnus.

Going back to your 58 unchanging at the beginning of this thread, it seems that she is not open to be influenced and so your hopes cannot be realized at this time. Why don't you put this relationship on the back burner, so to speak, and busy yourself with other things and different people? It has a hold on you and you want something to come of it, yet the I Ching has given you many indications that even at its best this relationship is highly problematic. Can you let go of it?
 

Magnus

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I'm not sure about letting go.... maybe I'm living in a fantasy world where it would work out perfectly in my head. I do feel some sort of feeling is different now when I think of her though so maybe I'm letting go slowly. Putting it on the back burner sounds like it could still happen, just at a different time. I feel like why would I focus on anything else if that would be the ultimate outcome anyway though.
 

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