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C

candid

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This is a small question for Brad, or anyone having knowledge of the Chinese language.

The word ?luck? seems to be popular in modern Chinese culture. What is the root of this word, and how does this word tie into I Ching?
 

bradford_h

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Hi Candid
Just ran a quick search for luck in my favorite online CE dictionary. None of the characters they gave (mostly three characters all pronounced jiao3) even occur in the Yijing.
The word in the Yi that is sometimes translated good fortune or auspicious (I use promising or fortunate) is Ji2. It's used almost 150 times in the Zhouyi alone. This is from my glossary:
ji2 0476 393a 30+3 01.7 (to be) promising, fortunate, opportune, auspicious, happy, good, felicitous, lucky, timely, fortuitous, favorable, propitious, positive, hopeful; (a, the) opportunity, promise, hope, good auspice (s); luck, good luck, good timing, good fortune, happiness, well-being; (to) bode well, promise, (give) hope (s, ed, ing); all is well; supportive circumstances

Unlike Li4 (worthwhile, rewarding, harvest, etc.) you can have or find Ji2 without having earned it beforehand.
 
C

candid

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Thanks, Brad.

So in 25.3, for example, where the wanderer's gain is the citizen's loss, this is a context of unmerited good fortune, or luck? Of course in the bigger scheme, it's probably more like providence than 'dumb' luck, at least from a personal view. Since the word 'luck' doesn't appear in the original texts, I'd surmise that this too is more in line with good fortune than good luck; that is, a result of prudence and wisdom.

Do you agree?
 
C

candid

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Never mind. After leaving for a couple hours and coming back and reading that, it was a dumb question.
 

bradford_h

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Hi Candid
Not a dumb question.
Although the wanderer's gain is De (gain), not Ji.
In several places the Yi tries to disconnect any causal links between meritorious acton and both good fortune (ji) and happiness (xi). It implies that there is a correlation, but one should not act as if good fortune and happiness were secured or guaranteed by good behavior.
 
C

candid

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Well said, Brad. It's what I was trying to affirm, but thought I might be knit picking at nuances.

There is a notion that 'if you do good, then good things will happen to you'; as though it is earned through merit. Virtue does generally lead to merit, but good fortune is extremely relative, and not always recognizable as such. So it is as much recognizing 'luck' as it is giving up entitlement.

Thanks for your input.
 
C

candid

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kicking this tin can a little farther yet...

Then, to the Junzi, good fortune actually does appear as a sort of 'luck'.
 

yly2pg1

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Traditionally, the Chinese's way of improving one's well being comprises of:

(1) Ming
(2) Yun
(3) Feng Shui
(4) Accumulate Ying De
(5) Reading

The word "luck" (in Chinese culture) refers to "Yun".
"Yun" means "revolving", in deeper sense the revolving of stars in the sky.
When someone's star is bright, the chinese say "Hau Yun" meaning "Good Luck".


"What is the root of this word, and how does this word tie into I Ching?"

You will not find "Yun" or "luck" in Yi text.
But, "Yun" is tied into I Ching because the "astrology" of I Ching is derived
from the Little Dipper with Polaris as the POINTER.
 
C

candid

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Yly2pg1, thanks.

Can you explain 'Pointer' further as it applies to this? Pointer as a cursor toward what? Destiny or fate? Good/bad fortune/luck?

Is this predetermined or changeable fate or fortune? Or a mixture of two networking?
 

yly2pg1

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Some translations for "luck":

hao Yun - Good Luck
huai Yun - Bad luck
cai Yun - Financial luck
tao hua Yun - love luck
 
C

candid

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Looks.. interesting, Yly2pg1. Just hope I don't have to commit it to memory and time soon.
irked.gif
lol
 

yly2pg1

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Some of stuffs i know about:

The handle of the Dipper is acting as the hand of a clock
with Polaris (North Star) as the pointer. The hand will
make one rotation in the sky in one lunar year (with pretty well accuracy
from ancient point of view).

The ancient Chinese identify 28 "stars" and assign an "animal sign" to each star.
(This is shown in one of the chart where you will find 28 characters surround the chart)
One character denotes one animal sign.

The 28 stars is further divided into 4 zones - East, West, North and South
with 7 stars in one zone. Little Dipper itself make up of 7 bright stars "in the middle".
This is how the Chinese come out with 5-ELEMENTs (wu xing).
 
C

candid

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Interesting stuff. People actually sat around figuring this all out thousands of years ago.

As a people, you would think this universal perspective would be represented on popular magazine covers, rather than the latest teen dietress. Yet look at the incredible views we have of the heavens now through Hubble. Something so huge is treated so cavalierly.

So this stars and diagrams of stars, what do they say about fixed fortune? Or destiny?
 

yly2pg1

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And if you look at the image37 (lo shu and Ba Gua), you will find a "cross" in the middle of the chart.

The ancient character of "five" is actually a "cross". (You can also find the five element
in the diagram).
 
C

candid

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Yly2pg1, this is all cool to look at, but if you are showing this to me specially, I'm afraid you're going to have to dumb it down, or explain just what this means to me. Is there a tie-in here to luck or fate, even through speculation or personal philosophical views?

Anyone?
 

jerryd

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Hello Candid, Just a small comment on you fate and luck delema from a philosophical perspective which is my own. Luck cannot be other than that which Fate is a predisposition to the culture in which you may live brings to you with out any warning. Predetermination is what some call fate and luck is either good fortune or a degree which is less than good all the way to disasterous./ Opinion and submission the responsibility of the writer.
 

yly2pg1

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Some Chinese definitions:

(1) Ming - Fate
(2) Yun - Luck

Most of the time, in chinese language, you will find the term 'Ming Yun' when we talk about fate and luck.

Also, one correction to be made about 'Polaris'.
Polaris is not the pointer of the Little Dipper, the pointer is the 'handle of dipper' itself.

In recent years, there is some findings about Yi when people start to look beyond Yi text. And there is a trend that people start to dispel some of the myth surrounding Yi.
 

yly2pg1

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Come back to the "pointer" in the celestial chart(which is the direction of the handle of the little dipper), the direction of the pointer correspond to a season.
For example, when the pointer is pointing at east, it is spring.

A brief matrix:

Four emblems--pointer---season--5-element--------(7-star)

new Yang------east------spring--wood-------------green dragon

old Yang------south-----summer--fire-------------"zhu1 que4"

new Ying------west------autumn--metal------------whitetiger

old Ying------north-----winter--water------------tortoise

--------------middle----4season--earth-----------Little dipper
 

yly2pg1

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Come back to the "pointer" in the celestial chart(which is the direction of the handle of the little dipper), the direction of the pointer correspond to a season.
For example, when the pointer is pointing at east, it is spring.

A brief matrix:

Four emblems--pointer---season--5-element--------(7-star)

new Yang------east------spring--wood-------------green dragon

old Yang------south-----summer--fire-------------"zhu1 que4"

new Ying------west------autumn--metal------------whitetiger

old Ying------north-----winter--water------------tortoise

--------------middle----4season--earth-----------Little dipper
 

gene

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YLY2

Very interesting about the findings when people look beyond the text. This is something I have contended for a long time, that the Yi Jing, I Ching, is much deeper than anything we here in the west have been able to get a glimpse of. In today's world I am sure that is true of the Chinese also. I have said many times on this site that the Chinese symbols, hieroglyphs, or whatever they should be called, have many meanings besides the obvious. The same thing is true when we try to interpret the old Tai Chi Chuan texts. Even the Chinese don't know what all the meanings are. And even beyond that, there must be another level. We don't get it. Nobody here in the west, and probably in today's world, in the east, is willing to teach us anything about it. If there is anyone left that knows anything about it. We have been looking at this book very superficially. Even those of us who know it well, really don't know it at all. This too is why I insist that this book was not made up by men. It had to come from a source that has much more knowledge and much more wisdom than man does. We cannot even begin to fathom the complexity of this book. I suspect that it came from a civilization that had computer power that is much more advanced than ours. There is no other way. Our scientists, who I believe are not nearly so smart as they think they are, try to tell us that we evolve, and ancient man was ignorant and danced around cave fires. If that is the case, (which it isn't) you have an even bigger problem about where did it come from. There is a higher intelligence, much higher, somewhere.

I would be very interested in finding out about these finding that go beyond the text.

Gene

Gene
 

yly2pg1

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Hi Gene,

One example of thinking out of box is the about the "He Tu".

"He Tu" is found to be comprised of "two spirals" in the formation of our Solar System
in 2 different "setting" of 1-3-5-7-9 and 2-4-6-8-10 which gives equilibrium of ying and yang.
 

yly2pg1

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http://history.math.fcu.edu.tw/
Refer [1.1] for 'He Tu'

"I suspect that it came from a civilization that had computer power that is much more advanced than ours. There is no other way."

Forget Yi for a while.
It is about the Bell's Lab.
A lot have been said about the invention of "npn" and "pnp" in the late 40s.
I went thru some articles which give strong evedience of 'reverse engineering'...

End of the day, it is about a 'blueprint' from a higher civilization.
A blueprint that underlies some of the major bibles in our human world ...
 

gene

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Hi YLY2

I have to admit, sometimes I am not sure of what you are trying to say in total, but I get the overall idea...

"A blueprint that underlies some of the major bibles"

I doubt there is anyone in the world who has a real grasp on the intricacies of the Hebrew language, where The Torah, and the Christian old testament comes from. Each letter has entire sentences of meaning, and in each word there are entire paragraphs of meaning. And that is only for starters. I am going to try to look up a website that links the Hebrew letters with musical notes, also hand signals... And a number of things. There is an entire field of gematria involved. (Words having numerical equivalences, and involving geometric patterns - Biblical Greek does this also) There is also a major dispute going on right now about whether there is a sequencing effect in the Hebrew too, perhaps in the Greek also. In other words, in many cases, every 50th letter makes up a word. (Under certain rules, of course.) Then words cluster around other words to give prophecies, etc. I will try to get some websites on this.

Gene
 

gene

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YLY2

As far as reverse engineering. This has happened. We did not have TV until after world war two. We had already developed radar so it was a logical step. Nevertheless, much of our computer expertise came from reverse engineering of crashed UFO's. I know there are a lot of people even on this discussion board that do not wish to believe such things. But this is in fact, very very true. In June of 1947 a UFO crashed in the New Mexico desert, and the military quickly took it away. Since then there have been many discoveries involving reverse engineering, and much is still going on. It is also true that high level federal projects involve physics that is far beyond anything the population would imagine. They had a language that seems to be hieroglyphic in nature, but I do not remember for sure if it was similar to an earth language. It has been a long time since I have had any involvement with this. I have heard rumors that the same thing has happened recently in China. Don't know if this is true or not. There is also evidence that this happened in Germany shortly before the Nazi's took over. I find all this fascinating.

Gene
 

martin

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I'm not sure about this reverse engineering story, although I'm prepared to give it the benefit of the doubt.
But - and that is more important, I think - the basic idea is right, many discoveries do not originate in our minds. They come from somewhere else.
It's not like somebody gives you a piece of paper with some formulas or diagrams on it, though.
happy.gif
 

gene

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A society has to be sufficiently evolved in order to reverse engineer. The blueprints are not laid out in any fashion. What is required is an understanding of the basics of physics, including a knowledge of electromagnetism. Then when looking at an engine, look for a piston, if one is not there, then what else might propel? If it is so far advanced we can't conceptualize what it might be, as someone from the stone age, let's suppose, might not be able to do if he looked at a jet fighter, not knowing anything about electricity, or propulsion systems they would not have a clue what they were looking at. If a child gets into a car and unlocks the brakes, he might get an idea what that particular part is for. Maybe. Anyway, that is the concept of reverse engineering. It is not looking at blue prints. On the other hand, I do believe in the case at Roswell, NM, our engineers and code breakers did break the language code on computer printouts. They may have been able to get further information that way, I do not know. I first learned about this years ago, long before the present frenzy of books came out about Roswell. The information I had did indicate they deciphered the language. One interesting thing came out. Don't know if it is true or not. Total speculation, but from what I read about the language, "The gods (aliens) are coming back in the year 2010." That is just a quote. I don't hold to it or against it.

Gene
 

martin

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I should have added that it is also not like someone gives you a machine for reverse engineering or a text in code. Although that may happen sometimes it's probably exceptional. What is usually transmitted is an essential idea, at least as far as I know based on my own experience (not scientific or technical in my case). And it's left to the human mind to work out the details.
These ideas are not complicated, they are very simple although they are difficult (or even impossible) to find for a human mind.
A good example is Einstein perhaps. I don't know what really happened in his case but it looks like he received the essential ideas of relativity already in his childhood. As a child he had fantasies about traveling through the universe on a light beam. Later he had a kind of intuition that told him that there was more - a unified theory. He searched for it all his life, but it escaped him, at least in this sense that he couldn't translate his intuition into the mathematical language that is required in the scientific community.
Where did that intuition come from? I don't know, but I suspect that he received it. He _knew_ that there was a unified theory.
 

gene

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Yeah

There is so much there. I understand Einstein couldn't do simple math problems, like if you made $10 an hour and worked 40 hours, how much did you make? That may not be true, but the text books say it is, yet he could conceptualize universal truths in a way that defies explanation I think. Later on, he could put them to the math test. I personally don't think Einstein was correct on some things, (although that could be because I misunderstand him) but I do think he was on the right track.

Martin, you might be interested in this website, (which I posted a minute ago in another topic.

http://www.aetherometry.com/EAintro_aether.html

Gene
 

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