...life can be translucent

Menu

Memorizing the I Ching: 32 Heng / Duration

rosada

Supporter
Clarity Supporter
Joined
Jun 3, 2006
Messages
8,652
Reaction score
1,691
32. Heng / Duration

-- --
-- -- above CHEN THE AROUSING, THUNDER
-----
-----
----- below SUN THE GENTLE, WIND
-- --

The strong trigram Chen is above, the weak trigram Sun below. This hexagram is the inverse of the preceding one. In the latter we have influence, here we have union as an enduring condition. The two imaages are thunder and wind, which are likewise constantly paired phenomena. The lower trigram indicates gentleness within; the upper, movement without.

In the sphere of social relationships, the hexagram represents the institution of marrage as the enduring union of the sexes. During courtship the young man subordinates himself to the girl, but in marriage, which is represented by the coming together of the eldest son and the eldest daughter, the husband is the directing and moving force outside, while the wife, inside, is gentle and submissive.

Duration means that which always is. What is in the middle abides always. In the hexagram the second and fifth place are middle positions. But the six in the fifth place, although central, is weak, whereas the nine in the second place is central and strong as well. Hence the second line is the ruler of the hexagram.

While in the preceding hexagram the correspondence of the lines comes into account as more of a hindrance than a help, here the fact that that all the lines correspond is proof of a firm inner organization of the hexagram that guarantees duration. The strong second line stands in the relationship of correspondence fo the weak six in the fifth place.

The Sequence

The way of the husband and wife must not be other than long lasting. Hence there follows the hexagram of DURATION. Duration means long lasting.

Miscellaneous Notes

DURATION means that which lasts long.

Appended Judgements
DURATION brings about firmness of character. DURATION shows manifold experiences without satiety.
DURATION brings about unity of character.
 
Last edited:

Sparhawk

One of those men your mother warned you about...
Clarity Supporter
Joined
Sep 17, 1971
Messages
5,109
Reaction score
72
yicard32.jpg
 

charly

visitor
Joined
May 9, 2007
Messages
2,265
Reaction score
130
H. 32 chinese text:

恆 heng2 fixing , making things durable
亨 heng1 treat
无 wu2 no
咎 jiu4 wrong (1)
利 li4 profitable
貞 zhen1 divination
利 li4 profitable
有 you3 having
攸 you1 where (or maybe far)
往 wang3 to go (2)

(1) Some people can think that making things durable could be an error, people in a hurry looking for quicly finished affairs. ZhouYi preffers it slow.

(2) Make profitable a future for yourself, make profitable any place where you go, also if far from your home.

Charly
 

charly

visitor
Joined
May 9, 2007
Messages
2,265
Reaction score
130
Hi, Luis:

I wonder about some issues from the picture you post:

According to traditional chinese marriage the man is going to work, the wife is staying at home in the kitchen with his child. All right.

But the woman looks like a lady, nicely dressed, surely not for working at the kitchen. Not for cleaning the house.

The man is charging a stick or a pole in his shoulder. Is he going to work the field? The man is a laborer (he isn't a JunZi) but the wife is a lady! Strange situation.

If the cup of tea isn't for the husband, maybe it is for the kid: why is it so hot? If the kid has to take a breakfast, better give him a fruit, not that cup of tea, don't burn him. There are a bunch of bananas hanging from the wall, take one.

32.5: For that wife to perservere lovely and well dressed is easy an lucky. For the poor husband to persevere working the field is ominous. Better for him is to come back home for watchig TV or drinking a beer.

Very delicate the drawing, but I prefer Willy Divito. Don't get upset, it's a joke.

Un abrazo,

Charly
 

Trojina

Moderator
Clarity Supporter
Joined
May 29, 2006
Messages
22,605
Reaction score
1,951
:rofl: Yeah i think Charly has a point ! Did she put that silky kimono on after he left ? Who is she expecting ? She looks pretty shifty to me, like she can't wait to get him out the way, and shes about to shunt the kid off out of the way too by the look of it .

OTOH maybe the guy through the window isn't her husband - maybe shes seeing him behind her husband, the Junzi's back !
 
L

lightofreason

Guest
32 Duration
Committing
In the context of cultivation we utilise awareness.

"HENG : continue in the same way and spirit; constant perpetual, regular; self-renewing; extend everywhere; the moon almost full" ERANOS p371



Trigrams : cultivation (bottom), awareness (top) : with/from cultivation comes awareness. [thunder over wind]

In the binary sequence hexagram 32 pairs with hexagram 50.
This pairing reflects the benefits of delay that lead to refinements - be it in the unconditional commitement expressed in 32, or the particular, and so conditional 'cooking' of 50.

In the binary sequence hexagram 32 opposes hexagram 42.
At the LOCAL level we are dealing with an octet of hexagrams with WIND as base. The association here is of 32 with 57, where the exaggerated sense of commitment is reflected in a more balanced format in the form of the 'gentle' influence of the wind on cultivation and becoming influencial.

In the traditional sequence hexagram 32 pairs with hexagram 31.
In this pairing both hexagrams focus on issues of commitement, be it the intensity in the wooing of 31 (and so an overall differentiating focus) or the general sense of commitment reflected in 32 (and so an overall integrating focus).

COMMIT:

31 : commit (gradual) - through to someone; 31 wooing comes from a context described by hexagram 13 - loose associations (27-ness)

32 : commit (sudden) - through to something; 32 commiting comes from a context described by hexagram 14 - centered associations, directing (27-ness)

http://members.iimetro.com.au/~lofting/myweb/lofting/x001110.html

click on the hexagram image for another page of material.

Chris.
 

rosada

Supporter
Clarity Supporter
Joined
Jun 3, 2006
Messages
8,652
Reaction score
1,691
Yeah, that really is a strange picture for this hexagram. Why is there even a child in it? DURATION is about husband and wife, not husband, wife and child! If we ever design our own deck I suggest 32 be a picture of a man walking down a road, maybe clearing the path, with the wife following closely behind him.
 

Sparhawk

One of those men your mother warned you about...
Clarity Supporter
Joined
Sep 17, 1971
Messages
5,109
Reaction score
72
But the woman looks like a lady, nicely dressed, surely not for working at the kitchen. Not for cleaning the house.

Well, Charly, Trojan may be onto something here... :D


The man is charging a stick or a pole in his shoulder. Is he going to work the field? The man is a laborer (he isn't a JunZi) but the wife is a lady! Strange situation.

Obviously, the man is her lover and carries a big stick. :rofl:

If the cup of tea isn't for the husband, maybe it is for the kid: why is it so hot? If the kid has to take a breakfast, better give him a fruit, not that cup of tea, don't burn him. There are a bunch of bananas hanging from the wall, take one.

The kid has been a pest all the while the man was there with her and the tea is meant to punish him. Also, those are not bananas but firecrackers...

32.5: For that wife to perservere lovely and well dressed is easy an lucky. For the poor husband to persevere working the field is ominous. Better for him is to come back home for watchig TV or drinking a beer.

I hear you, Charly. The story of my life... I've tried to explain this to my wife but she isn't taking any hints, either directly or indirectly.

Very delicate the drawing, but I prefer Willy Divito. Don't get upset, it's a joke.

Hey, I don't draw them. I'm only the messenger... :D

Un abrazo,
 

hollis

Supporter
Clarity Supporter
Joined
Sep 10, 2006
Messages
666
Reaction score
3
I just would like to know what happened to her right hand....:D
 

Trojina

Moderator
Clarity Supporter
Joined
May 29, 2006
Messages
22,605
Reaction score
1,951
I don't think they're bananas or firecrackers hanging from the ceiling I think they're sausages - shes having an affair with the butcher who is posing as a window cleaner thats why hes carrying that pole thing !
 

luz

visitor
Joined
Jan 31, 1970
Messages
778
Reaction score
3
Yes! Notice how the guy with the pole is NOT wearing the hat that is on the wall.. because it's not his!! it's the husband's!!

And the hot tea if for 'smoking' the sausages, of course:D
 

my_key

visitor
Joined
Mar 22, 1971
Messages
1,808
Reaction score
552
And the hot tea if for 'smoking' the sausages, of course:D

That's not hot tea. That's the origin of teh Bisto aroma.:D

And never mind the lady's right hand .... Where's the kids right hand?:mischief:

Mike
 

luz

visitor
Joined
Jan 31, 1970
Messages
778
Reaction score
3
Lol...:rofl:

The kid's right hand is waving bye bye to "uncle"
 

rosada

Supporter
Clarity Supporter
Joined
Jun 3, 2006
Messages
8,652
Reaction score
1,691
THE JUDGEMENT
Duration. Success. No blame.
Perseverance furthers.
It furthers one to have somewhere to go.
 

frank_r

visitor
Joined
Jun 20, 1971
Messages
639
Reaction score
10
Heng - duration is the middle, 32 of all hexagrams. So from this point we go over the middle, over the top.
When you look to the trigram, thunder and wind both wood, the beginning of something. At the same time the eldest son on top and eldest daughter on the bottum. Trigram thunder and trigram wind are standing in there most natural position. The position that the oldest brother and sister are working together. It is also the first new male/female blood in the family.
The trigrams are the beginning of the king Wen cycle. All idea's of continuity.

The nucleur trigrams are lake and heaven both metal. Then you have the relation wood and metal. also the energies of the pure soul (Hun - wood) and corpural soul Po- Metal),

The term heng we find also in the acupuncture as name for the so called extraordinary yang organs- the brain, marrow,bones, meridians, galbladder and uterus.

Elisabeth Rochat is writing in one of het books about the character Heng: 恆
" On the left side is the heart radical. The right part of the ideogram is described as a passage, the idea of a crossing between two sides. There is an upper and lower line, perhaps Heaven and Earth or the two sides of a stream. Between the two something is passing through, like a boat crossing from one bank to the other. If you add the heart to this perpetual movement between two things, or between yin and yang if you like, you get the sense of constancy and perseverence. The heart is crossing from one side to the other, from the beginning to the end, from one bank to the other, and the heart is like a boat making a realationship between two banks of a stream. From this perspective the heart is performing its function naturally, as the heart has to master both side of vitality. It has to be able to make a decision and to maintain the constancy and continuity of an individual's life."
 

charly

visitor
Joined
May 9, 2007
Messages
2,265
Reaction score
130
I just would like to know what happened to her right hand....:D
Hollis:

Maybe she have a witch's broomstick in her right hand. That's why all the scene become strange: things are not what they seem. The woman is a witch. The husband was transformed from noble master to peasant, the palace was transformed into a country house.

This joke reminds me that the Fu character used in 32.5, translated as wife, has two components, the kneeling woman whith big breasts, and something that most chinese authorities say it's a broom, meaning the home duties of the wife.

This story sounds me dubious, maybe it's the story from the small burocrats point of view, but do you see Fu Hao cleaning his house with a broom?

Here you have a modern Fu:
%E5%A9%A6%E4%BA%BA%E7%94%BB%E5%A0%B11.JPG

Source: http://www.moroeya.com/zasshi/zasshi_main.asp

The woman is a lady, not a wife cleaning her house, and she hiddes her right hand!
The firsth big red character of the title is Fu. The Fu guild remains until our times.

Yours,

Charly
 

rosada

Supporter
Clarity Supporter
Joined
Jun 3, 2006
Messages
8,652
Reaction score
1,691
THE IMAGE

Thunder and wind: the image of DURATION.
Thus the superior man stands firm
And does not change his direction.
-Wilhelm
 
Last edited:

charly

visitor
Joined
May 9, 2007
Messages
2,265
Reaction score
130
Heng - duration...
The term heng we find also in the acupuncture as name for the so called extraordinary yang organs- the brain, marrow,bones, meridians, galbladder and uterus.

Elisabeth Rochat is writing in one of het books about the character Heng: 恆
"On the left side is the heart radical. The right part of the ideogram is described as a passage, the idea of a crossing between two sides. There is an upper and lower line, perhaps Heaven and Earth or the two sides of a stream. Between the two something is passing through, like a boat crossing from one bank to the other..."

Frank:

Something to do with crossing the stream between life and death? Maybe about people who can cross ever returning? Getting inmortality by giving birth or by giving knowledge?

I believe that H.32 is about seeking for endurance and getting it. Not all YANG but also YIN.

In the character «Fu» used in 32.5 I don't see a wife but a wise woman. The woman is kneeling not in submission to the man, but in the ancient position of birth giving. The broom isn't that, I belive it's a dynastical emblem meaning «passig the power from generation to generation». For women, of course.

Do you agree?

Yours,

Charly
 

charly

visitor
Joined
May 9, 2007
Messages
2,265
Reaction score
130
... the superior man stands firm
And does not change his direction.
Rosada:

Superior men (JunZi) cannot be the FuZi (1) from which 32.5 says that seeking for endurance is ominous. JunZi is someone who masterizes endurance while FuZi are almost kids needing to be initiated.

Yours,

Charly

-------------------------------
(1) often translated as husband, Fu means husband/master; FuZi is a master's kid, a prospect.
 

rosada

Supporter
Clarity Supporter
Joined
Jun 3, 2006
Messages
8,652
Reaction score
1,691
I wasn't posting in responce to your discussion of 32.5. I was just putting up THE IMAGE. I'm quoting Wilhelm here. I should have made that clear.
 
L

lightofreason

Guest
IC+ Image:

"[With cultivation comes awareness]. Thunder, Wind. Persevering (Constancy). One uses (permanency) rather than continuous change."
 

charly

visitor
Joined
May 9, 2007
Messages
2,265
Reaction score
130
... I've tried to explain this to my wife but she isn't taking any hints, either directly or indirectly.

Hey, I don't draw them. I'm only the messenger...
Hi, Luis:

I know that the drawing isn't yours, but from a chinese source, that's why I think that to analyse the picture is to analyse the hexagram's interpretations with all the customized byass from what the text says. Not only a joke, and I know that you enjoy Willie.

Now, seriously speaking, of course that your wife will not hear you. All the wives know that they get the best slice from marriage. Marriage is a female invention. For we only remains heavy duties, bills and taxes.

I'm believig that this is the reason why W/B say that H.32 is about marriage.

Take a look to the chinese text. If you count the emergence of positive and negative words you will observe that:

I) For Wen Wang all is positive: heng / wu jiu / li, no negatives.

恆: 亨旡咎利貞利有攸往
heng2 heng1 wu2 jiu4 li4 zhen1 li4 you3 you1 wang3 :)

II) For Duke of Zhou almost all is all negative, with the only exception of women at 32.5.

1)浚恆貞凶旡攸利 jun4 heng2 zhen1 xiong1:( wu2 you1 li4:(
2)悔亡 hui3:( wang2:(
3)不恆其德或承之羞貞吝 bu4 heng2 qi2 de2 huo4 cheng2 zhi1 xiu1 zhen1 lin4:(
4)田旡禽 tian2 wu2 qin2 :confused:
5)恒其德貞婦人吉夫子凶 heng2 qi2 de2 zhen1 fu4 ren2 ji2:) fu1 zi3 xiong1:( [what I said you]
6)振恆凶 zhen4 heng2 xiong1:(

If, as the proverb says, matrimony is a collection of bad things, thus the link between H.32 and marriage. W/B is based on Duke of Zhou. But the reason why Wen Wang was so optimistic remains in the dark.

If you think that 32.4 is neutral, what about if you were a game? No place for you!. And if you were a hunter looking for a game? No benefit for you!.

Maybe you think that 32.5 is defending polygamy. But 32.5 is not speaking of wife and husband. It speaks of:

1) FuRen 婦人: fu can be a wife, but not called by her marital satus, means a spectable woman in full control of all her attributions, rights and duties. A woman of high social status, like a Queen or a Noble Woman, say, a LADY. FuRen is a collective, a LADIES' GUILD. «...for the gild of ladies, lucky...»

2) For men 32.5 uses also a formulae, not only Fu (husband/master) but FuZi 夫子, a husband that is not yet a tall man? the pretendants, one of whom goes to be husband, but not all? «... for kids, ominous.» Seeking for endurance is not for people who do not masterize it.

Nothing about polygamy. Only duties for us.

Un abrazo,

Charly
 

charly

visitor
Joined
May 9, 2007
Messages
2,265
Reaction score
130
I wasn't posting in responce to your discussion of 32.5. I was just putting up THE IMAGE. I'm quoting Wilhelm here. I should have made that clear.
Rosada:

I know that you were quoting W/B given that you had put the source at the foot.
But do you think that wifes must be obedient and shy while if husbands were forced to be constant they will be unhappy?

Yours,

Charly
 

Sparhawk

One of those men your mother warned you about...
Clarity Supporter
Joined
Sep 17, 1971
Messages
5,109
Reaction score
72
Now, seriously speaking, of course that your wife will not hear you. All the wives know that they get the best slice from marriage. Marriage is a female invention. For we only remains heavy duties, bills and taxes.

OMG!! You must be kidding, right? Women are not that stupid to invent something like the "marriage institution"!! IMO, that's gotta be a "patriarcal" invention. Remember, they are the ones with multiple orgasms... :rofl:

Abrazo,
 

charly

visitor
Joined
May 9, 2007
Messages
2,265
Reaction score
130
OMG!! You must be kidding, right? Women are not that stupid to invent something like the "marriage institution"!! IMO, that's gotta be a "patriarcal" invention. Remember, they are the ones with multiple orgasms...
Luis:

Really do you think this is the sort of endurance masters are speaking of all the time?
Amazing!

There is also the matriarchal marriage, one woman with very much men. But only remains in little primitive communities i China, not the sort of marriage that confucians promote. This could be a female invention?

You'r right:
About character zhen 貞 some masters say that it have two components, divination and cowrie shells (money). Another, as Wu Jing-Nuan, say that divination is the shape of a man (a little one, given the proportions). If you think that the shells are many, tied with a cord, you get the image of a single man tying may women.

Thus 元亨利貞 yuan heng li zhen could mean «primal feast, profitable polygamy»

(to be continued)

Charly
 

rosada

Supporter
Clarity Supporter
Joined
Jun 3, 2006
Messages
8,652
Reaction score
1,691
Not sure what you're refering to Charly. Hmm..I had gotten tired of typing out Wilhelm's comments but maybe the time of DURATION is not the time to quit...

THE IMAGE
Thunder and wind: the image of duration.
Thus the superior man stands firm
And does not change his direction.

Thunder rolls, and the wind blows; both are examples of extreme mobility and so are seemingly the very opposite of duration, but the laws governing their appearance and subsidence, their coming and going, endure. In the same way the independance of the superior man is not based on rigidity and immobility of character. He always keeps abreast of the time and changes with it. What endures is the unswerving directive, the inner law of his being, which determines all his actions.

Thunder is that which is mobile, wind is that which is penetrating - the most mobile of all things that have duration under the law of motion. Wood is an attribute of both Chen and Sun, hence the idea of standing firm. Sun is within and penetrates, Chen is without and moves; hence the idea of a fixed direction.
-Wilhelm
 

charly

visitor
Joined
May 9, 2007
Messages
2,265
Reaction score
130
Not sure what you're refering to Charly. Hmm..I had gotten tired of typing out Wilhelm's comments but maybe the time of DURATION is not the time to quit...
Rosada:

Do not get upset. I use to joke. Your work has merit, but I enjoy more when you dramatize your own insights. Maybe it's no time for quitting. W/B is a must but there are also another bells to hear.

Don't you agree?

Charly
 

charly

visitor
Joined
May 9, 2007
Messages
2,265
Reaction score
130
...Thus 元亨利貞 yuan heng li zhen could mean «primal feast, profitable polygamy»...(to be continued)

Some scholars think that cowrie shells anciently used as money remind some parts of the female body, most readers never saw a cowrie shell and are condemned to believe it or not as a matter of trust.

Now you can see it at:
http://www.seaeaglecoin.com/shang.html

Many shells means many women, shells were pierced for tying toghether like a treasure.

About the relation of money and marriage you can look some charms at:
http://www.coincoin.com/XM17C1.jpg

Of course modern scholars, which I trust, say that there are no cowrie shells in Zhen, but a holy vessel, a matriarchal symbol: a little guy over a great mother, also the true meaning could be that divination is a job for women, the true witches, the natural shamans.

For chinese guys, confucians or not, now and ever, all the film is passing by his minds.

Matriarchal communities remains until now:
lahu1.jpg


 The Lahus ethnic minority has a population of 453,705, mainly distributed in the Lancang Lahu Autonomous County in Simao Prefecture, Southern Lincang Prefecture and Menghai County in western Xishuangbanna in Yunnan Province. Others live in counties along the Lancang River... Lahu men wear a collarless jacket buttoned on the right side, baggy long trousers, and a black turban. The women wear a long robe with slits along the legs. Around the collar and slits are sewn broad strips of color cloth with beautiful patterns and studded with silver ornaments. Women's headdress extends a dozen feet long, hanging down the back and reaching the waist. ... young people were free to choose their marriage partners, and only a few marriages were arranged by parents. Women played the dominant part in marital relations. After the wedding, the husband stayed permanently in the wife's home, and kinship was traced through the mother's side. ...Remnants of the primitive communal system included mutual aid in production, common ownership of land and matriarchal clan system.
http://www.china.org.cn/e-groups/shaoshu/shao-2-lahu.htm

Yours,

Charly
 

rosada

Supporter
Clarity Supporter
Joined
Jun 3, 2006
Messages
8,652
Reaction score
1,691
Oh I'm not upset, I just didn't understand you! How kind of you to say you enjoy my insights. I like your expression, "other bells to hear." Definitely!
 

Clarity,
Office 17622,
PO Box 6945,
London.
W1A 6US
United Kingdom

Phone/ Voicemail:
+44 (0)20 3287 3053 (UK)
+1 (561) 459-4758 (US).

Top