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dickydoo

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This is a followup to this thread: http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/friends/showthread.php?t=3418.

I decided to keep taking small steps, so I decided to ask her out to do something. I sent a txt msg: "hey A! What are you doing Monday evening?". She responded almost immediately: "Heya I might be home (her family's home and not her apartment, which coincidentally where I also live), what's up?". I proceeded to invite her out to a jazz lounge, and I never received a response.

It's been 2 days since now, so I asked the I Ching whether I should follow up with her. I got 38.6 > 54 -- Opposition turning into the Marrying Maiden. My interpretation is that she is wary of me and my intentions. In the past I have been known to play the field a bit but with her my intentions are pure. What I'm not sure about is whether there is anything I should be doing to remedy this misconception or not. This reading seems to imply that there is nothing for me to do but wait.

I asked the I Ching to confirm this for me so I asked, "So I should do nothing, right?". I got 58.6 > 10.

I live in the same building as she does so inevitably I will run into her. How should I behave when that happens? Should I confront her about it or act as if nothing has happened?
 

stevev

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There's your problem ...

jazz lounge, what were you thinking, ring her up and tell her it was a typo and you really meant disco palace !

Humour man, even if she is the leader of the opposition.
 

pargenton

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Hi all,
I found this advice for 38.6 (LiSe), maybe it can be helpful

Above 9: Looking askance, alone. Seeing a pig with mud on its back, a cart loaded with ghosts. At first he draws his bow, later he relaxes his bow. No bandit, a marital suitor. Proceeding encountering rain: as a rule auspicious.

Make your looks and actions comprehensible for other people. If they have to guess about you or your aims, they might guess wrong and shoot. Never expect them to accept you just like that, give them reason to trust you. Show your intentions. A meeting is always tense until each knows the other, then comes relief.


Hugs
Paolo
 

dickydoo

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Hmm...thanks for the responses. I realize there's been some tension and wariness on her part in the past few weeks following the initial attraction stage. The question is how I can show my intentions without scaring her off? Do I just wait silently for her to "relax her bow" or try to do something to show her that I'm for real? How should I act when I inevitably run into her?

I'm not usually like this, but I've dated many many girls in the last few years and I'm convinced this is one with the potential for me to settle down with. I don't want to screw it up.
 

dobro p

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"I asked the I Ching whether I should follow up with her. I got 38.6

I'm at work so I don't have a Yi handy, but if I remember rightly, 38.6 is about a change taking place in your perceptions: first your attitude is defensive/aggressive, and then your stance relaxes as you see that the other party isn't really an adversary. Applied to your situation, that would translate as something like: "Relax. She's no enemy, plus she's got her own reasons for not going out with you. She's someone you can get along with okay. Wait for a while, then ask again." An alternative reading is that she sees *you* as someone to be wary of right now, but that stance will relax as she comes to see that you won't do her any harm. You can ask her out again when that happens.

"I asked the I Ching to confirm this for me so I asked, "So I should do nothing, right?". I got 58.6"

I'm doing this from memory, but I think 58.6 is about lots of words being used, the implication being that it's *only* words. So if that's the case, then the Yi's saying something to you like: "So many questions! You're spinning your wheels, dude." And yes, the Yi thinks 'dude' sometimes. Truly an oracle for all times and places. :)

I live in the same building as she does so inevitably I will run into her. How should I behave when that happens? Should I confront her about it or act as if nothing has happened?"

I think you should raise the issue with her. You don't need an oracle for the simple stuff, and this is simple stuff. I mean, it's rude not to respond to an invitation, right? So, did she not respond to your invitation because she was embarrassed about turning you down, or did she not respond because she doesn't care about how you feel. In either case, it's probably safe to say that she didn't respond because for one reason or other she didn't want to go out with you. But again, you won't know unless you ask. When it comes to relationships, I'm all for asking the person what you want to know rather than consulting the oracle. Oracles need interpretation, but you can get a *lot* of information from a one-minute exchange with somebody - what they say, intonations, body language, expressions. Way better in most cases than going for the dark sayings of the oracle. And then, after you've talked with her, *then* if you consult the Yi, it'll probably make more sense.
 

dobro p

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A general principle: before consulting the oracle, get *all* the information you can get using ordinary means.
 

dickydoo

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Thanks Dobro, I certainly am thinking about this a bit too much :) I'll be patient and if I do run into her I'll ask her about it.
 

cjgait

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The omens indicate a situation in which you are actually considering two women. One of them (described as the 'big' or 'older' woman) is brash and impetuous. The 'small' or 'younger' woman is gentle and kind.
 
J

jesed

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Hi dickydoo

Just in case the comment could be useful

The answers you had receive (56.6; 38.6 and 58.6) doesn't look positive for your intentions.

Had you notice that in every answer, the changing line is line 6?

Now, I would suggest you another aproach: make a "dialogue" with the Yi, following this questions in this order:
a) General Diagnosis of the relationship between X and I
b) Qualification of my position within the relation
c) Qualification of X's position within the relation
d) What is the best path for me to take related to this relationship?

Best wishes
 

willowfox

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I asked the I Ching whether I should follow up with her. I got 38.6 > 54 -- Opposition turning into the Marrying Maiden.

Hex 38.6>54 you feel isolated at the moment but she has probably misunderstood your noble intentions. Don't worry the problem will soon be resolved. When you talk with her again, remember that she is in a superior position, so act accordingly. You are not doing her a favour, she will do you a favour if she agrees to go out with you.

I asked the I Ching to confirm this for me so I asked, "So I should do nothing, right?". I got 58.6 > 10.

Hex 58.6>10 suggests that you are looking for some action here, more than what you are telling us. Nevermind, be real careful in how you deal with her, she is the tiger and you must tread carefully around her. But don't worry, she won't bite you when you talk to her again, she may just see the humor in this situation.

I see nothing here that suggests you should wait any longer but heed what the hexs 54 and 10 are trying to tell you, be subservient and careful in your approach.
 
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dickydoo

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Thanks everyone for the replies!

cjgait, I'm not considering any other woman at this point in time -- at least not a real one. I am doubting whether I would fit with someone with such a dominant personality though as I am used to being in charge in a relationship.

Thanks willowfox, I realize I need to be careful around her and not act brash like I used to. I need to stop trying to be the one calling the shots -- not that I have with this one anyway.

jesed said:
Hi dickydoo

Just in case the comment could be useful

The answers you had receive (56.6; 38.6 and 58.6) doesn't look positive for your intentions.

Had you notice that in every answer, the changing line is line 6?
Are you saying my intentions are not totally honest? To be fair, I've been wavering about whether this is worth the effort lately, but in the end I think it will be. I'm just not 100% now like I was a couple weeks ago.
jesed said:
Now, I would suggest you another aproach: make a "dialogue" with the Yi, following this questions in this order:
a) General Diagnosis of the relationship between X and I
35 unchanging, Progress
jesed said:
b) Qualification of my position within the relation
19 unchanging, Approach
jesed said:
c) Qualification of X's position within the relation
9.2,3,4 > 25 The Taming Power of the Small to Innocence
jesed said:
d) What is the best path for me to take related to this relationship?
50.3 > 64 The Caldron to Before Completion.

Any comments on these?
 

cjgait

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You are not considering her, indeed she is so quiet you are not even seeing her. Have a look around and you will see her.
 

autumn

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Every single question you have asked, and every answer you have received has indicated to me her interest in you is not at all romantic.
 

autumn

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By the way, is she several years younger? Or are you in a position of authority over her? Or do have some other kind of influence? Because there's some kind of "icky" feel about this.
 
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bruce_g

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Dicky,

I think everyone who has interpreted here for you has given something valuable for you to consider, and most seem to be getting an “icky” feeling about it. Not that it can’t work out but that you seem to be pressuring this woman in an unattractive way.

I don’t think this is nearly as much about who is used to being in control as it is about respecting each one to have their own timing and space.

One of your readings included 58. Wilhelm has a wise comment in regard to this: “for it's perseverance that makes the difference between seduction and courtship.” Perseverance doesn’t mean to give up on her, but to give her and yourself time and patience, so that things can develop naturally, without one imposing on the other. Otherwise I think you’ll just creep her out.
 

Trojina

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Am I missing something crucial because i can't see anymore ickyness here than any other realtionship question ?
 
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luz

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I don't seem to detect any ickiness either..:confused:
Maybe because he said he has "played the field" in the past?
As far as pressuring her, I only see he asked her out once, and only after she replied in a way that, to me, sounded encouraging.

In any case, Dicky, I think you should talk to her next time you see her. Ask her if she got your message, she should be able to tell you why she didn't reply. Maybe a jazz lounge sounded too much like a date? Maybe she'd like to know you better first, be friends a little bit. There must be other things you can ask her to do with you that sound more neutral. If your intentions really are good you should be able to have the patience of courtship that Bruce pointed out. Who knows, maybe you will even decide you don't like her that much and you can then just retreat and nobody gets hurt.
 

autumn

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trojan said:
Am I missing something crucial because i can't see anymore ickyness here than any other realtionship question ?
I'll try to explain why I say that. The first three readings indicate fear, mistrust, and taking one's position for granted.

56.6- The foreign one on a journey feels relaxed and confident among the ones he is visiting and takes his position for granted. He forgets he is on a journey, and loses the trust of the ones he is visiting.

This was his general reading on how to handle his attraction. Then he asked what to do when she failed to respond to his invitation and received:

38.6- Opposition reaches a climax. The Other is feared to have bad intentions, but then he makes his intentions clear, and the Other accepts the presence of the opposer without fear, managing their presence without actively fighting them (54). Dickydoo is the Other in this reading.

This is strange. She feels comfortable enough to text message him, so probably is a friendly acquiantance. Why does she react with this kind of fearful apprehension about his intentions? The mostly likely reason is because she is comfortable with Dickydoo's current role in her life, and is not open to any kind of romantic involvement. Or, she fears that he will use something in their current relationship to each other against her, and this makes her apprehensive. Even though the text of 38.6 suggests that "first she is unsure of his motives", and "then their purity is revealed", the motives behind being asked out to a jazz lounge are pretty clear- he's asking her out. What is there to clear up? It seems there is something "wrong" in her initial impression of going out with him at all- which makes me wonder if it's an inappropriate relationship. It could also be that she believes he is just playing the field and if fearful of him using her.

There was no coherent query behind 58.6 (10). Dickydoo was just asking for the Yi's opinion. It responded with an image of playing the field. 58 is about many things- infatuation and sexual attraction are part of it. The innocence of 58 is sullied in the top line, as the querent is over-doing seductive energy. 10 is about social discourse and "games". It can be out job interviews, preparing for professional activities, or about the rules of dating behavior.

Now- his other questions. 35 unchanging. This time lasts until this January. 35 is about a strong man receiving the audience and cooperation of his peers; being recognized, getting things accomplished. But, it's unchanging, meaning it's not really interacting with the world. So, there's not much relating here. Just the image of the sun rising over the horizon for its own purposes. Perhaps the Yi is asking him to take advantage of the light of the sun to examine what he truly wants?

His position. 19 unchanging. Such a similar image. Ascending; but to one's own purposes, not in relationship to the world because the hexagram is unchanging. Climbing a hill, and afterwards, the down slope. Kind of like what a woman would expect from a relationship with a commitment-phobic player with primarily sexual motives. 19 is also a paternal image- suggesting an age or power difference.

Her position- 9.2.3.4 (25). Polite refusal of involvement.

What should I do? 50.3 (64) Don't open the lid of that Ting.
 

Trojina

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I would take the 38,6 as advising him not her - the question being 'should i follow up with her' - I think I might take it as 'dont misconstrue why she didn't reply to the invitation, it may not have been for reasons you think'. Anyway her first message to say Hi and she was home does indicate shes pretty well disposed to him, so its understandable it would confuse him if she did not then reply to his invitation. There is not enough evidence here to say she fears him, but then I never think the Yi is telling you what other people feel - its about you. Seems pretty strange to call someone 'icky' because they got a line of a hexagram concerning asking someone out - stretching it a bit far I think.
Come to think of it seems strange to call anyone 'icky' because of the answer they receive from the Yi. Its not like hes been going on and on about it like some do.

You are asking him if the girl is much younger, if he is in authority over her etc There is no reason to think this. Its like you are implying hes some kind of pervert. He only asked a girl out, lol !!

Does 50,3 mean keep the lid on the ting ? I don't think so it just says theres good food in there you can't get at.
 
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autumn

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Another thing that is slightly disconcerting, or at least gives me a gut reaction of a red flag is 56 itself can be construed as one who is intends only to travel, and in the last line, the good will of the one receiving the guest is broken. It fits a recurring theme of playing the field.

Thanks for pointing out he said he had played the field in the past, I hadn't seen that.
 

Trojina

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Why is it 'disconcerting' ? Disconcerting to who ?

Theres a funny double standard here cos theres a female who posted here whom I considered to be stalking a man and completely disregarding hs statements that he wanted nothing to do with her. I told her once I thought she should respect his wish to be left alone and she was very angry so i shut up. She went on and on pestering this man and got many supportive posts in return telling her it was all about her 'process' etc. All the time I was thinking to hell with her 'process' shes harassing the guy, but i kept quiet. BTW I can't remember who wrote the posts in return etc as it was a while ago - I really don't remember so I'm not taking a swipe at anyone - I guess they meant well anyway.

But here we have the opposite. A man asks about approaching a girl for a date and hes considered some kind of weirdo that can't take no for an answer. I don't think its fair on him at all.
 
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bruce_g

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trojan said:
Why is it 'disconcerting' ? Disconcerting to who ?

Theres a funny double standard here cos theres a female who posted here whom I considered to be stalking a man and completely disregarding hs statements that he wanted nothing to do with her. I told her once I thought she should respect his wish to be left alone and she was very angry so i shut up. She went on and on pestering this man and got many supportive posts in return telling her it was all about her 'process' etc. All the time I was thinking to hell with her 'process' shes harassing the guy, but i kept quiet. BTW I can't remember who wrote the posts in return etc as it was a while ago - I really don't remember so I'm not taking a swipe at anyone - I guess they meant well anyway.

But here we have the opposite. A man asks about approaching a girl for a date and hes considered some kind of weirdo that can't take no for an answer. I don't think its fair on him at all.
There are icky women too. :p

Just kidding, sorta.

It's so common to see (here and elsewhere) someone (male or female) having a sense of desperation in gaining the affection of a certain other. I think it's just unattractive regardless which side it comes from. There's no sense of honoring the other person. Feels more like a desire to have or own the other person. When that becomes an obsession, that's icky to me. But that's just my icky opinion.
 

Trojina

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It just occurred to me I wonder if 'icky' means to me what it means to you and Autumn, might be one of those words with slightly different implications in different places. To me its 'sickening' , something unsavoury, yukky, yes ?


Yeah but Bruce there are many many desperate posters here seeking to hear what they want to hear in regard to their love. I'm always amazed how much time people give them as I wouldn't have the patience. Thats why I'm suprised this particular querant has had this response, to me he doesn't seem that desperate :confused: or 'icky'.
Hes only ever made a few posts here.

Ah well apologies Dicky I suppose we are talking over you.
 

autumn

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trojan said:
You are asking him if the girl is much younger, if he is in authority over her etc There is no reason to think this.
This is based on hexagram 19, unchanging. Here is a link to the paternal qualities associated with it. http://www.anton-heyboer.net/i_ching/hex_17-32/hex_e_19.htm
The image is of a father ascendning a hill, and looking down upon his loved ones with affection. In the context of the questions, he was asked to objectively qualify his positon within the relationship. He is objectively qualified as approaching an apex, and looking down with affection. This caused me to wonder if indeed he is in position of authority, or is older.

trojan said:
Disconcerting to who?
Me.
 
B

bruce_g

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trojan said:
It just occurred to me I wonder if 'icky' means to me what it means to you and Autumn, might be one of those words with slightly different implications in different places. To me its 'sickening' , something unsavoury, yukky, yes ?


Yeah but Bruce there are many many desperate posters here seeking to hear what they want to hear in regard to their love. I'm always amazed how much time people give them as I wouldn't have the patience. Thats why I'm suprised this particular querant has had this response, to me he doesn't seem that desperate :confused: or 'icky'.
Hes only ever made a few posts here.

Ah well apologies Dicky I suppose we are talking over you.
Yeah, I agree. I told myself not to get involved with relationship readings anymore, pretty much for the same reasons you've mentioned. I probably shouldn't have gotten drawn into this, but thought maybe my perspective might resonate with Dicky. Then, maybe not.

I think my icky isn't as bad as your icky though. lol.. To me, icky is just something one sided and either possessive or a bit obsessive. Maybe clingy is a better word?
 

dickydoo

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cjgait said:
You are not considering her, indeed she is so quiet you are not even seeing her. Have a look around and you will see her.
Well I think her housemate likes me, but I'm not that interested...her friends definitely like me as they've asked me to go to dinner with them (the girl I'm interested in was not around) and record TV shows for them this past week. We live in the same building so it's convenient.

Looks like there's a bunch of questions I need to answer to clear things up. She's 24, I'm 27. There is nothing icky except we both went to the same school and she knows people that know of me, and I don't think they've said anything good about me. I can definitely sense that I've been friendzoned even though there was initial interest on her part. I can almost pinpoint the moment it happened...when we ran into each other at a club, and she was talking to an acquaintance who knew me. I had previously dated a friend of his and it didn't work out.

Let me address the "playing around" bit. I had a long drought with women in the past, and I started studying techniques to get women interested very quickly. They've worked for the most part, but it has worked so well that it seemed a bit too easy for me. I found myself losing interest in these women very quickly after they've been "seduced". It had gotten to the point where many times in the past year, I didn't even bother trying to continue pursuing women to "seal the deal" when I saw they were interested because I couldn't see a future with them. This one seemed different.

I'm not desperate, but I do want to approach this properly as I think I may have found someone worth settling down for. I really am tired of "playing the field", and have been for a year now. That's why I'm asking all these questions. I understand I'm only a friend to her right now, but I'm wondering if there is a chance that it may develop into something later on. If there is, I'm willing to wait. If not, I might as well try to start moving on.

BTW, she answered today via txt message: "I might not be there on monday for the lounge sorry!".
 
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autumn

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If you are quite sure you are not a pervert lurking in the attic with binoculars (just kidding), then 19 and 35 unchanging become pretty simple. This is just a prospect that doesn't pan out for you. She will always be nice (9>25), but she's interested in you as a friend.

Oh well.
 

dickydoo

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autumn said:
If you are quite sure you are not a pervert lurking in the attic with binoculars (just kidding), then 19 and 35 unchanging become pretty simple. This is just a prospect that doesn't pan out for you. She will always be nice (9>25), but she's interested in you as a friend.

Oh well.
Sigh, that's the feeling I got.

I guess the original thread (http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/friends/showthread.php?t=3418) got my hopes up that there was a chance to remedy this in the future.
 

autumn

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Actually, I will add something here. The weird feeling of something being not right about your situation was based on seeing the energy of the first three hexagrams with their heavy, negative energy combined with 19 and 35, which are inherently positive, but also assertive, and in certain contexts "male" energy.

Now that you have explained your situation in more depth, the heavy energy of the first three readings may have been more about a very bad impression she has of you.

The relationship reading itself may be indicating that something positive can come of this (35), only if you are able to get past these negative impressions, and "put a handle" on the Ting, to be able to let her know who you really are.

Right now- she is definitely not interested, but it may be because she has heard terrible things about you that aren't accurate. You are in a position of 19, (approaching with good intentions), and she sees you as 38.6.

If that is the case, then try to get past those impressions she may have of you by addressing them directly.
 

dickydoo

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Thanks autumn and everyone else for the replies. I will address these negative impressions when I get a chance to speak with her and keep you guys updated!
 

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