This is more of a personal post. I need some emotional help

[Liselle]

This biting through is really well..biting through...Karl

Maybe more like being chewed on.

I've never looked at those forums, but my knee-jerk reaction is I don't think chatting with other depressed people about depression would help me either. Having said that, group therapy does help some folks.

Sleeping with the lights on was a good idea!

Have you ever tried regular psychotherapy, and/or antidepressant medications? As I said in an earlier comment, it seems like you've had this underlying condition for quite some time, so maybe you have tried them and they didn't work. I don't want to make too many trite suggestions.

 

[newlife123]

I tried Paxil for a few months and the side effects were just too much for me to handle and it made my depression worse. I was also addicted to the benzodiazepine Ativan and weaning off it was excruciating. Benzos lose the affect after a few weeks so you have to up the dose and then you become addicted. Ativan is just as addictive as heroine if not more.
.
I have not tried regular psychotherapy because my work insurance doesn't cover that, I wish it did.
.
Lisa, it doesn't do any good for me to reflect or ruminate on her right now. we have been divorced for 5 years and were together for a total of 19 married and 2 during the separation since we had no choice but to live together until we could sort our stuff out. That is when I had the issue with the SSRI and Ativan.
.
She divorced me. I didn't want it at all. It was foolish and self destructive for me to contact her but inside I just needed to know how she felt. I totally didn't expect her to be so heartless and her words really stung.
.
I'm having a lot of difficulty fathoming how two people who were family and inseparable can become like this. After the divorce I told myself that I believe in marriage 10x more now since I have the experience of a bad marriage and know how to build a better one but now I don't trust life anymore or fate.
.
In Buddhism and Taoism the central themes is how everything is imperfect and impermanent and that is how we have a living universe. But then the last few years haven't shown much change for me. I go to work then I go home and I have failed at all attempts to date women. Either they are unavailable or they just aren't interested. It's hard to move ahead when there is nothing to movie toward.

 

[Liselle]

I think what you have to concentrate on right now is just trying to get through this episode resulting from the phone call. That is very trite and obvious, but right now it's probably all you can do. And for what it's worth, the reading supports that.

Afterwards, unfortunately, I have no idea. There is perhaps some "cosmic lesson" involved here, which might show up on your own astrology chart somehow without even factoring in hers. Maybe in this lifetime you're supposed to learn to be alone, or some such thing. Or maybe this relationship is some sort of "karma balancing," if you believe in past lives and karma. (Please hear me say that I have NO idea how, or if, any of this actually applies to you.)

Having information like that can be a mixed bag, though. Sometimes it helps to have an explanation for why things are happening, that it's not just some random act of violence. But understanding something is not the same as fixing it, so...then you're back to using the I Ching (or astrology) to try to identify a path forward, which you've probably already been doing.

it doesn't do any good for me to reflect or ruminate on her right now

Sounds sensible to me. Would it count as rumination if you tried on purpose to work up some detachment, or even some indignation or anger towards her? You said you have unresolved love for her...but loving her does you absolutely no good, and anger might be better than depression?

I am really out of even wildly speculative notions here. I hope the weekend goes as well as possible.

 

[newlife123]

I was a fierce believer in Karma and reincarnation up until recently. And I had plenty of anger, hatred and resentment for her these last few years and it was eating me up inside. Yes, lisa it is time to detach. The Karma balancing thing between me and her is what I have thinking about for a long time but I just don't know what to think anymore.
,
I know I don't want anger but closure. Anger is like picking up a burning coal and trying to throw it at the one you hate.
.
I need to detach myself from her and the past, burn the bridge but I don't really know how to do that right now inside and I guess it would be easier to detach if I had someone else to attach to.
.
lisa you have been a really good friend to me about this. Thank you.

 

[dragona]

I so wish I could not relate. Its just that I do.
Right from the top, (even if you are not an Aquarius ), STOP THINKING. Just stop. When you catch yourself thinking about it, stop, have something to twist it, like a book about something you really like or music, or just go blank. Switches like that may help. Also, be robot like. Go through motions, try to be present in the moment of daily routines. Everything wonderful, all of the sudden-a crack in the pavement is a form of artistic composition, skies are amazing....you know
These are all small forms of meditation, really-saying this hope does not put you off.
Because first step is just to survive this. And the "repairment" to functional will be so much easier if you try to float rather than sink. At the end of a day, you may find feeling pretty stupid remembering how much you took it to heart. These last two things go for me, at least.
And since she is only human, after all, her harsh way was a defense-which attack in that way mostly is. Question of style, if you prefer to see it that way.
So, 25.5 says it was a sudden unexpected brush off for her and you cannot really cure it-just endure it.

 

[Liselle]

I'm an idiot

First of all, I love what Dragona just said. Those are good things for a lot of us to keep in mind about a lot of things. The techniques she's suggesting, like purposely trying to "switch," trying to "float" rather than "sink," being very present to the small wonders of the world, sound very useful . I will try them myself!

Dragona also said, about your ex-wife's reaction to you on the phone, "And since she is only human, after all, her harsh way was a defense-which attack in that way mostly is. Question of style, if you prefer to see it that way." That is an excellent point! She was caught off-guard by your phone call; people overreact...

Now, me being stupid...I got too caught up in a figurative interpretation of 25.5 and forgot to look at the actual words. Bad I Ching habits.

The more figurative interpretation likely still applies - that there's nothing you have to do, just "bite through" it and let it fade on its own - but look at what the literal words say:

Wilhelm-Baynes:

Nine in the fifth place means:
Use no medicine in an illness
Incurred through no fault of your own.
It will pass of itself.

and from Hilary's book:

The affliction of disentangling.
No medicinal herbs, there is rejoicing.

Had I paid attention to that, I would never have brought up the idea of antidepressants. Clearly that is not a solution for this particular problem.

I don't know if it's saying you should never take any form of antidepressant again in your life. It might be - you had bad reactions to two medications, and there are people for whom no medication works - but if you ever think of trying something else, you'd probably want to ask again at that time rather than extrapolating this reading to cover everything ever.

I also don't know how 25.5 applies to the L-tryptophan and kudzu you've already taken. You said it helped you, and didn't hurt you...maybe you just don't need it and didn't need to spend money on it or something? Maybe try not taking it and see how you do without it?

 

[newlife123]

Dragona and lisa,
Thanks.
L-tryptophan is just a supplement that boost serotonin. You can get it in turkey and kudzu just helps with me not drinking too much.
I just woke up with a lot of anxiety and negative thoughts so I have to shower and go to Starbucks right now and just sit and watch people.

Karl

 

[dragona]

Thanks Lisa for praise :bows:.
Sadly the best advices mostly come from experience. The wisest should come without, I hope.
The question was concrete one,I asked the oracle what should I do about this pain and got: 25.5 to 21.
Hex 21 is also described as discernment = contradistinction, dissimilitude..distinction would be the most direct translation for my language, according to Google. I did not go much further dictionary wise because I like to think we are getting direct answers very often.
So the answer for me would be saying that dealing with this highly sensitive issue, one should make a proper distinction between sudden impact reaction and the POSSIBLY not such one...and so I understood the medicinal reference as a figure of speech, as something like "you cannot help to feel the way you do or do anything about fixing (medicinal or not)-it will gradually go away (or get fixed in another way)".

As for taking meds, after not taking anything at all, I am all for them, especially mild herbal kinds I started on too late after stress took its toll. Sad that we have to go through all this unnecessary pain.
Take care, d.

 

[sooo]

Taking no medicine or herbs can be literal, but I've found that most often it's the state of worrying over what is wrong that is the chief cause of the symptoms in the first place. So stop worrying, stop feeling sorry for yourself, as they tend to be highly addictive, so once you start chasing that dragon you'll likely wind up more severely bitten and poisoned (depressed). Rest, exercise, stretching, a healthy diet and attitude, plus a good dose of enthusiasm, are the kinds of medicine Yi encourages. The former is much easier to allow oneself to fall into than to rise out of.

 

[angelatlantis14]

Hi Karl,

I am sorry to hear about your unhappiness!
I've been though a very traumatic relationship / end some years ago, and remember all too well the things that you go through right now. When it feels like you loose the floor under your feet and every second passes by individually, each one being as bad as the one before. It feels like that feeling will never end. What I mostly did at the time, was try and distract myself as good as I could - meeting friends, taking weekend classes, and so on. of course that still left much time being on my own which simply had to be gotten though...I wish you my best from all of my heart that you will get through this and find peace happuiness and love. You sound like a good guy, so you deserve it

NoOw for something that you take or leave, just as your will (I do not know you or your life personally, so I may be wrong on this) One thing that strikes me about your experience is that I do not really believe it is about your ex-wife at all. Yes you've been together for a very long time and you probably had a lot of good, shared times through the years. Still, you mention that you are seperated now for quite a while, and you also said that you were in many ways not perfectly matched and had broken up before. So is your pain really related to the words she said or is it rather that these words confirm something you feel about yourself - a feeling of being not worthy, not good enough or just not being whole?

If this is the case, you are doing the right thing to stay away from analysing your relationship with her - it would be painful, and it might also not be the point and distract you from what is really paining you inside - a hole in your soul, so to speak.

When I got through my miserable relationship end, the first thing I thought was that a) I wanted my boyfriend back or b) I wanted someone else. It took me quite a while to realize that these other people only served to hide a feeling of loneliness inside myself - that the reconnection to myself was the thing I needed. You are absolutely right when you say that we have no control over what people come into our life and what the results of our actions will be. Well I also think we have no control over the things that happen to us that make us loose that connectionto ourselves. However we do have some control over the efforts we make to heal our souls, even if it may take long, and yes the results are still uncontrollable
One thing that has helped me are affirmations - I say to myself "I am a good person and I deserve to be happy" I may not be able to really feel it nine times out of ten, but the 10th time, something gets through and makes me feel better. I do believe, that also the other 9 times when it did not work, still something gets through, even if it is only your own effort at helping and healing yourself!

Other than that, I think the kind and compassionate people you have already answered you, have had a lot of good suggestions to try out.

All the best wishes

maui

 

[Liselle]

As for taking meds, after not taking anything at all, I am all for them, especially mild herbal kinds I started on too late after stress took its toll.

Taking no medicine or herbs can be literal, but

Good points...I was all aghast that I had broken an ironclad rule (!)...but maybe there aren't any really ironclad rules, and no need to overcomplicate things...thanks

Edited to add: A rule I break all the time in my own readings, but I worry more when it's on the forum...

 

[sooo]

Our body/brain is one constant neurochemical exchange. We feed ourselves all sorts of medicines, or poisons.

 

[newlife123]

Thanks friend,

I didn't have the energy to come on yesterday. I just stayed at home and drank and watch crap on TV. Weekends are really tough for me. Going to work everyday helps since there is something to do but the weekends are horrible. I have nothing to do or anywhere to go. They really scare me.
.
Woke up this morning from a nightmare that was so horrible. The kind of nightmare I get aren't gory or violent. They are always about being trapped in place or situation that I don't want to be in but can't escape from because it is my reality. I guess it just like my real life just more scary in the dream.

Karl

 

[Trojina]

other people have have spent a lot of time and energy posting here with suggestions, written longs posts and mostly this thread isn't even about the reading at all.

Seems to me other people need to do less work and you need to do more. For every lengthy sincerely helpful post in this thread you have written just another few lines on how terrible everything is.

You say you won't go on forums that deal with the issues you have. I reckon you may do well to re think that.

 

[newlife123]

Dragona is right,

I need to stop thinking about this. just need to stop. I don't know how but I need to stop.

 

[Trojina]

You've been through it all before here...like here

http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/friends/showthread.php?16811-Okay-to-give-up-2-5-gt-8

that thread is pretty much like this one...and there were other threads the same....

The reading here, 25.5, you haven't said anything about it, you just keep saying how bad things are and other people keep coming and trying to make you feel better. It looks like that game Eric Berne described of

"why don't you do....?"

and you answer

"yes but....."


offloading , human sympathy and support , all part of sharing readings yes.....but this just seems a bit one sided to me.

 

[Trojina]

Thanks friend,

I didn't have the energy to come on yesterday. I just stayed at home and drank and watch crap on TV. Weekends are really tough for me. Going to work everyday helps since there is something to do but the weekends are horrible. I have nothing to do or anywhere to go. They really scare me.
.
Woke up this morning from a nightmare that was so horrible. The kind of nightmare I get aren't gory or violent. They are always about being trapped in place or situation that I don't want to be in but can't escape from because it is my reality. I guess it just like my real life just more scary in the dream.

Karl

imagine a button just between your eyebrows only slightly higher. That is where the 'third eye' is. Imagine that button you press there will eject a cd or tape that keeps playing all these dismal messages of how terrible it all is, the one you keep playing us here. Press lightly there and imagine that stupid old script 'my life is hopeless, nothing good ever happens, no one loves me.'..blah blah blah being ejected as if it were a cd from a cd player.

No one can take that stupid tape out except you.....and it is stupid, it's just a pack of lies, you don't have to believe it, you can deprogram yourself. You aren't going to die because you don't have a girlfriend. Billions of people have happy lives without one. So press 'eject' and stop repeating all this crap to yourself. Billions of people have weekends alone sometimes too, it doesn't make you a freakish failure....just get inventive, embrace your feedom...for the great thing you do have is FREEDOM. The only place you ever seem to go is Starbucks.....why not a museum or art gallery or take up sport. Sport would be good for you I think. You wouldn't be able to play these dumb tapes if you whacking a ball about or something.

 

[Liselle]

The reading here, 25.5, you haven't said anything about it, you just keep saying how bad things are and other people keep coming and trying to make you feel better.

Especially when the reading isn't really that gloomy. It says you have to get through this acute bad spell brought on by talking to your ex-wife. Implication being that the shock will fade - as intense emotions tend to do. You will grow more "detached" from it. Unfortunately, there is no way to just jump from here to there. The I Ching recognizes that this is extremely difficult for you - that's what hex 21 as the relating hexagram says.

But re-read the line text:

Nine in the fifth place means:
Use no medicine in an illness
Incurred through no fault of your own.
It will pass of itself.

"Incurred through no fault of your own. It will pass of itself." Think about that. Stare at it. This is actually the I Ching doing its best to be comforting, while still acknowledging the unavoidable hex 21 part. At least that's how I see it.

Trojan is right. There is nothing more any of us can say about this. And the fact that nothing we've already said has helped you feel better - that's probably the hex 21 part rearing its head.

Imagine that button you press there will eject a cd or tape that keeps playing all these dismal messages of how terrible it all is, the one you keep playing us here. Press lightly there and imagine that stupid old script 'my life is hopeless, nothing good ever happens, no one loves me.'..blah blah blah being ejected as if it were a cd from a cd player.

Terrific image! If what is going through your head was actually a CD, you wouldn't listen to it for one more second. Finding something else to put in the player could be part of the hex 21 stuff.

Look, no one is suggesting this is easy. It's not. If any of us had magic wands, we'd use them in our own lives. But the I Ching is saying that you will not feel like this forever. You got a clear and direct reading - dare I say, a promise - from the I Ching on that. Take it to heart.

 

[newlife123]

To Trojan and everyone,

I just can't handle my life right now and have made an appointment today to see a psychiatrist. The last few years have been to difficult everyday and my alcoholism makes it worse too. I give up. I just going to see the doctor and take whatever her gives me. I am un able to mange this my problem on my own.

I want to thank you all.

Karl

 

[dragona]

have made an appointment today to see a psychiatrist
Good for you.
It is not really easy at all to command your thoughts. The idea is to allow yourself the CHOICE whether to think about it or not, do you see? You can always come back and grieve it, it is not going away shortly, don`t worry about not suffering over it enough.
I hope you get me and good luck, d.

 

[angelatlantis14]

Hi Karl,

this seems like a wise decision to me. I hope you find help quickly. All the best of luck for the future.

maui

 

[poised]

I didn't have the energy to come on yesterday. I just stayed at home and drank and watch crap on TV.
Karl

Do you drink a lot? The type of alcohol in alcoholic beverages is ethanol, whether you're drinking beer or wine or hard liquor. Ethanol kills brain cells. There is NO WAY that alcohol will do you any good; in fact, it is damaging your health. Your mental, physical, emotional health.

Perhaps you should seek treatment or go to AA.

Hope you get over whatever is troubling you. Quitting the booze is a good place to start.

 

[newlife123]

Thanks,

I went to the doctor and got medication to stop the binge drinking. I'll be seeing a counselor soon.

 

[angelatlantis14]

Hi Karl,

I think that is a very good first step. Don't loose hope, even the worst of times don't last forever.

best wishes

maui

 

[newlife123]

Thank you maui,

I will be meeting a therapist on Monday.
The last few nights I have been watching Buddhist theory lectures on youtube in order to calm my mind and try to find some perspective. Some of it helps but a lot of it is very depressing because it tells you to let go of what you think is happiness too in order to achieve some kind of nothingness state.
.
Yesterday I was feeling a little better but today is very hard. I am on my break at work now and a strong wave of depression hit me and my goal today is to just make it through the day.



My problem is that inside even after all these years I have no really accepted all the traumatic things that happened to me and all the deep loss. I haven't been able to accept that the past is over and will never come back. Intellectually I understand it but emotionally I haven't been able to process this and that is why I haven't been able to move on with my life and have been living in constant depression and misery at every moment.



I also have not been able to accept my new life. Renting a cheap room in a someone's house and working a job I don't like but and coming home to the emptiness everyday. I do know that I have many options and that I can take classes and meet people but inside I just don't have the heart to do it.
.



Somehow I need to accept my reality and this is so hard to do as much want to because something inside of me is resisting and not allowing me let go. I know that letting go is something that can't be forced.
.
It's just so very emotionally difficult and that's why I got 21 biting through.

Karl

 

[angelatlantis14]

Hi Karl,

first off, good to see you take another step towards solving your problems!

<<I have been watching Buddhist theory lectures on youtube in order to calm my mind and try to find some perspective. Some of it helps but a lot of it is very depressing because it tells you to let go of what you think is happiness too in order to achieve some kind of nothingness state.>>

I am by now way an expert on Buddhism, but it seems to me that this concept is a very advanced stage of a process that most of us are not even remotely close to or might even aspire to right now...I think this state of nothingness is a supreme state of transcendence achieved by someone who has already gone through all other stages of earthly life -happiness, sadness - and now tries to reach the next spiritual level. But, since you cannot transcend what you don't have, I think this may not be the immediate result you want to strive for.
I don't think you should let go of your desire for happiness at all - after all happiness is good thing You may however want to try and loosen up about the definite image how exactly happiness may come along. There may be ways of your situation changing for the better you have not considered yet. If you keep looking at exactly one possible way, others might not be seen or cast aside. Happiness might come about in a roundabout and unexpected way.

.
<<Yesterday I was feeling a little better but today is very hard. I am on my break at work now and a strong wave of depression hit me and my goal today is to just make it through the day.>>

Yes that can be frustrating - you feel you have made an advancement, and then things go back to worse...but that is natural, and shows that at least things are starting to move!



<<My problem is that inside even after all these years I have no really accepted all the traumatic things that happened to me and all the deep loss. I haven't been able to accept that the past is over and will never come back. Intellectually I understand it but emotionally I haven't been able to process this and that is why I haven't been able to move on with my life and have been living in constant depression and misery at every moment.>>

I think you are spot on here - reconciling the things that have happened with your soul is probably really necessary to put them truly behind you.

<<I also have not been able to accept my new life. Renting a cheap room in a someone's house and working a job I don't like but and coming home to the emptiness everyday. I do know that I have many options and that I can take classes and meet people but inside I just don't have the heart to do it.>>

Hang in there. It may not be very perfect right now, but one step will lead to another. And another...
In a bad situation I have sometimes found it helpful to try and exercise gratitude towards the small things - every friendly smile, every sight of a tree in fall foliage, ....this will not make you happy instanteneously, but it will take your mind off the negative things for a second.

Again all the best wishes

maui

 

[anemos]

The last few nights I have been watching Buddhist theory lectures on youtube in order to calm my mind and try to find some perspective. Some of it helps but a lot of it is very depressing because it tells you to let go of what you think is happiness too in order to achieve some kind of nothingness state.

Oftentimes it is depressive for me too because the gap needs to be traversed is huge.

there are many alternatives ways to calm the thinking mind and get some rest. Anything you can do and needs you full attention and doesn't let the mind wander into distressing thoughts could provide some quite space. The "here and now" can be achieved in more mundane ways. Thoughts might come and go but since your focus is on the thing you do you don't get much involved.

Somehow I need to accept my reality and this is so hard to do as much want to because something inside of me is resisting and not allowing me let go. I know that letting go is something that can't be forced.

Wounds need their time to heal. Those involved in trauma therapy have as a rule "first, do no harm !!" Like when you drive, braking and accelerating depends on the traffic, same is with the healing process. Your resistance is a natural coping mechanism in order to protect your self . Little by little you can create your path be able to see the wounds, grieve about the losses, which might be hard some times but you will know that grieving leads to letting go.


Seems you are sitting in the driver's seat. That's wonderful.

Have a safe journey !

 

[Greenkid]

Dear Karl

I would like to suggest that you take some "Rescue Remedy" It deals with trauma of any kind, even from years ago. It is made up of 5 Different flower remedies by Dr Bach, it will not do you any harm whatsoever; it will not interact with any other medications you might be taking and is certainly not addictive in any way. It can be taken under the tongue (4 drops) but if you dont want to take it internally you can smooth it on your wrist or temples. It can be taken as often as you need to. You might like to read up on Dr Bach - he 'discovered' 38 different remedies for the relief of all kinds of mind conditions. They are not expensive and can be bought in any health store and even in 'Boots' the chemist.
I am so sorry for your distress, please try the 'Rescue Remedy' God bless you and keep you safe.
With love Annie (meigga)

 

[Greenkid]

Hello again Karl
When you read about Dr Bach you will see remedies that deal with different kinds of depression plus all sorts of other conditiins. Please try the Rescue though - You will find that it works - for the trembling in particular although it is not a sedative of any kind. Annie

 

[freimuth]

Dear Karl,
25.5 is a strong invitation to think and care about yourself, not the other one. Over many years you may have clung to your former friend but now it has become painfully obvious that your feelings were not reciprocated. So this must be a turning point for you. If you can slowly come round to the idea that what you thought about your friend was actually unsubstantiated, you may - just because of that - start nurturing yourself and get better. I am sure it is a very hard time for you, and you put it very well when you said: "Where did all those loving years go?". It's difficult to say how one "should" react in these circumstances. I can tell what I would do: I would say yes I did love someone, and if I truly did, I don't care whether my feelings are reciprocated or not; I would still help my former love even she forgot or even hated me; but I would not let me soul become someone else's possession. If we forget about possession and envisage love as true desire to help someone else, than we can become calmer. Of course we are all deeply in need of love, but sometimes we have got to treasure a love that is no longer shared. I wish you all the best and a serene year.