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Trump or Clinton?

diamanda

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The original Who will be President of the United States thread got 20 pages long. After Trojina's great idea on page 20 of that thread, that someone should collate all readings about Trump and Clinton, I decided to be that someone. I went through the whole thread (phew...) and here are the collated results. For anyone interested in all the readings about Bernie Sanders, I had summarised them on page 9 of the original thread.

To add my overall impression after this interesting exercise:
The elections will be a thriller full of suspense and unexpected twists and turns.
The next president will be either Trump, or none of the two.

I would also like to add Sixth Relative's excellent observation from that original thread:

when it comes to the use of Yijing in electoral issues, my experience is that 'getting more votes', 'winning the election' and 'taking office' are 3 different animals. It is the best practice to Keep that difference in mind when tossing the coins.

ref noposterdatequestioncast
1
mholden1969April 20th, 2016Will Trump be our next President41.1 > 4
2Will Hilary be our next President10.1.4.5 > 4
3loverofknowledgeApril 21st, 2016Will Trump win the election57.5 > 33
4Will Hilary win the election8.1.2.5 > 19
5TohpolApril 21st, 2016I received 9.5>26 for Trump as President9.5 > 26
6mholden1969May 11th, 2016Is Trump going to be the next President55.1 > 62
7Will Hilary be our next President31.3.4 > 8
8mholden1969July 1st, 2016Will Hilary win this election41 unchanging
9Will Trump win this election15.5.6 > 53
10mirianJuly 22nd, 2016Please describe the gender of the next American president.8.3 > 39
11Tim KJuly 22nd, 2016I decided to ask about a gender too16.3 > 62
12Trump wins?43.6 > 1
13Trump wins?47.4 > 29
14Clinton?46.5 > 48
15Clinton?20.2 > 59
16TohpolJuly 22nd, 2016What's the likelihood that Trump will romp home to "victory"?13 unchanging
17What's the likelihood that Hillary Clinton will romp home to "victory"?16.1.2.3.5 > 43
18steveJuly 22nd, 2016Give me a picture of the next president of the USA25.4.6 > 3
19liquidityAugust 30th, 2016Trump's electoral prospects3 unchanging
20Hillary's prospects36.1.4 > 62
21mirianSeptember 2nd, 2016reading for Clinton50.2.3 > 35
22reading for Trump2.4 > 16
23steveSeptember 12th, 2016Will Clinton resign before the election57.1.2.3.6 > 3
24mirianSeptember 12th, 2016I did a reading asking if she would succeed regardless [of her pneumonia]45.3 > 31
25mirianSeptember 13th, 2016Is Clinton going to walk into the White House as a President?50.3 > 18
26Is Clinton going to resign?33.3.5.6 > 16
27mulberrySeptember 14th, 2016Will Clinton be president?64.1.3 > 14
28I also asked for a picture of Trump's chances to win27.6 > 24
29Re: assassination...I asked for a picture of Trump's risk2.1.4 > 51
30mirianSeptember 18th, 2016I asked today if Clinton is going to win25 unchanging
31diamandaSeptember 25th, 2016Hilary & Trump - will the next president be one of them?24.1.5 > 8
32leighdSeptember 27th, 2016Will HC be the next president of the US?25 unchanging
33
Will DT be the next president of the US?51 unchanging
34mulberrySeptember 28th, 2016Will Hillary be president?55.3 > 51
35Will Trump be president?51.1.5 > 45
36soshinOctober 10th, 2016In which position is Mr. Trump now?29.6 > 59
37steveOctober 20th, 2016Will trump win the election26.1.2.6 > 15
38liquidityOctober 20th, 2016Prospects for Trump in the election?13.2 > 1
 

diamanda

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My thoughts about today's readings (ref no 37 and 38):

Will Trump win the election? 26.1.2.6 > 15
Steve I agree with you, this sounds quite auspicious for him.
After danger (26.1) and a separation (?) (26.2), line 26.6 shows an unobstructed way.
And yet 15 doesn't show a very great success, so it still doesn't sound like a clear 'yes'.

Prospects for Trump in the election? 13.2 > 1
The "insiders" lose. So I believe this means Clinton loses.

It seems like we're all going to have to wait and see what all those shocks will be.
Clinton loses, Trump has an unobstructed way... and yet Trump's "victory" won't be that great.
Whatever all that might prove to mean!
 

liquidity

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My thoughts about today's readings (ref no 37 and 38):

Prospects for Trump in the election? 13.2 > 1
The "insiders" lose. So I believe this means Clinton loses.
Interesting how we have such different views of the reading. The question was the prospects for Trump and the moving line reads "Fellowship with men in the clan. Humiliation."

Those are Trump's prospects. His prospects are "humiliation." That doesn't sound remotely like Clinton loses to me.
 

diamanda

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Yes I see what you mean, you read it from a completely different perspective.

What I meant was, the 'clan' brought to my mind the Clintons, the insiders of the White House.
Trump is an off-side. That's why I took it to mean Clinton/clan loses.
I can't connect Trump with any particular 'clan'.
 

missann

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What about the Ku Klux Klan? He has been associated with David Duke.
 

diamanda

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The result is also hexagram 1
In my experience with this cast, there's a need to move away from the 'clan' and make a fresh start (hex 1).

What about the Ku Klux Klan? He has been associated with David Duke.
Interesting. I hadn't heard of this so far (while, in contrast, the whole planet knows that the Clintons are a presidential clan).
I believe that if liquidity, who did this cast, has strong knowledge of strong Trump/KKK bonds, then it may well refer to this.
However I must say that by searching this on Google, I can see articles on how this Duke guy "bromances" and "loves" Trump, but Trump on the other hand "disavows" and "rebukes" Duke. So, not sure how strong this connection is...

Just for the record, I consider both Trump and Clinton utter scum, and I find it very sad that the US people have to choose between one of the two.
 

Tohpol

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Great table diamanda.

Although at the beginning of the year I was fairly certain that Clinton would be president I think her health issues (dementia) as well as her longstanding criminal activity means that she has become a liability to a portion of her Establishment supporters. I think Trump will clinch it in a similar way to Brexit - fairly unexpected. The readings appear to be consistently favourable for a Trump "win."

Since the media and polls are hugely in favour of Clinton there is a huge underestimation for the level of support he has among the Christian right and Libertarians who make up a sizable demographic - shocking as that may be. He'll obviously be a disaster for domestic policy and societal cohesion in the U.S. but possibly a safer bet in terms of foreign policy.

It also depends how much Trump pushes the envelope of his own independent decision-making. Like Obama and those before him you either have a rude awakening as to the nature of politics and geopolitics at this level and thus play the game as a puppet or you have your wings clipped, or worse. Trump will undoubtedly have a few nasty urprises in store for him if he does get in.

There's a lot of hatred for both these candidates out there which is only going to produce more divisions whoever the winner is. Once again, it's the people that will lose. But I guess the old maxim is true: a nation get's the president it deserves.

Regardless, we don't have long to wait to find out...
 

diamanda

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Tohpol, what excellent points! Especially the similar to Brexit shocking factor.
And I believe you're totally spot on about the (non) independent decision-making in US politics.

Yes I know about Clinton's criminal activities. As about her dementia - I hadn't heard of it. I searched for it on both Google and Yahoo (because I know Google do cook up "top search" results), but I didn't manage to find any substantial evidence on either of them. Do you have any reliable link? And just because I'm curious....

Does H. Clinton have dementia? 4.4.6 > 40

4.4 - entraped/enclosed folly, humiliation. This sounds like a yes, or, she's just a complete and hopeless idiot. "Not only that it has no opportunity to receive education, but that it is completely isolated by ignorance (...) (which is because it is) lonely and far from solidity". In any case, dementia or not, she's not well in her head.

4.6 - "Ignorance reaches its upper extremity (...) as if defending against a bandit (...) i.e. to prevent wrongdoing from occurring rather than offending the bandit (i.e. punishing an ignorant person for wrongdoing, which will create a backlash and become more serious)". I take this to mean her environment keeps her under control (e.g. maybe with medications?).

40, deliverance, so I guess her condition, whatever it is, is being controlled.

The hidden line is very interesting also, 64.6, if one wets his head, he loses it.
So maybe she still has an alcoholism problem?

* the quotes for lines 4.4 and 4.6 are from Tuck Chang's page.
 

svenrus

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....... sorry to interrupt here: I'm not, NOT, involved in your struggle over there - I'm from Denmark - but please forget about who is right and who is wrong. Trump is right in his perspective and Hilary (Clinton) in her perspective... Right ?
I asked about the issue and got the picture, from the I, that a WOMAN will appear on the scene.
The strange thing about those answers given by the I is, that female or Yin, can actually also mean a male (???) Trumph so to speak. In Yin is Yang as well as Yang is in Yin. Confused ?


Read my reading if interested in this forum.

Btw. I'm not either with Clinton OR Trumph, Just asked the I in pure curiosity. Hope the best will succeed - for the US as well as for the world.
 

diamanda

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I see what you mean about woman/feminine svenrus.
But I just don't think the gender is relevant in the case of them two. They're both corrupt (18).
I once tried to guess the gender of the next UK prime minister, I guessed male because of 34 and what UK got was Theresa May.
 

svenrus

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18 ?

OK, Your' from without the US as well, and as I not involved, but more sort of interested - of course in the perspective of Divination (Right ?) - in what the OUTCOME of that cast is: Right OR Wrong ie is the cast (yarrow, die, coins....) this OR that. And, which conclusion we can learn out of that.
I've tried to follow so many thread along the way so that I'm more confused than cleared up... 10000000000000 and so on moments concerning the matter.... Come on ! Before You have even thought about figuring those out You're left behind, I mean: You simply use that lot of a time to manage it, You have to leave.... (If You want to go on with Your life)
I just see the way that I Ching speaks to me like the way that it's more like in pictures than it's in words. And the first impression You'll get as well is in images like the first signs ever we learned were those pictographs or as Alfred Huang calls them Ideographs that reached us from fare back in time. I think we will have to understand I Ching more out of the pictures than out of any text given...

And, Dear Diamanda, I don't care whether I'm wrong in my vision about a WOMAN entering here ! Let me be wrong !

I only react here because You answered me.
 

diamanda

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18: you said the answer you got for "Give me a picture of the new president of USA" is hex. 18.
I agree that the I Ching also speaks in images, not only in words.
Very soon we will all know the outcome of this election and we can re-think the casts then and learn.
 

steve

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Just a note on the brexit patterns i watched a video and a UK book maker was saying the betting patterns are the same as brexit, and there is a huge increase in bets for trump. What happened with brexit was that many people didnt say what they were going to do to avoid conflict. I could imagine that with Trump

Steve
 

svenrus

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18: you said the answer you got for "Give me a picture of the new president of USA" is hex. 18.
I agree that the I Ching also speaks in images, not only in words.
Very soon we will all know the outcome of this election and we can re-think the casts then and learn.
Yes, sorry. And You are right about hex. 34 pointing toward a male in it's sense of attributes ie father, mother, sons and daughters. But sometimes, instead of demanding a Yes/No-answer You can demand a "how will it look like", "what's the caracteristic of him or her", "Show it to me" rather than "Tell me" etc.
 
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flashlight

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Scary thread... Hadn't asked the Yi about the elections and just did now.

Please give me an image of who the next US pres will be: 49.1.3.4 to 8

That is not reassuring to me in the least...

I'd had a "fantasy" a couple of weeks ago that something would happen and that Obama would be "prolongued" for a year or so. But of course, there is no provision to make that possible...
 

arbole

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My take. Clinton is going to win. Not just reading the I-Ching, if not, reading the situation, and most than all... the media shift.


In my country, the closer the elections got, you could clearly see how the media shifted to give a stronger force to certain candidate.

So, what im seeing its that Hillary its getting that support. And with honesty, i dont think that elections are that big of a deal. Trump its the force that needs to be there, to create this scenario we are living. 38.

The oppositiong, two clearly voices, that not only separate the presidents, if not all of the population. And the ones that are in the "I dont know". The possitive of all of this, its that people decrease in their minds, the power of presidents.

If the president its not any kind of representation of how i see the world, then... i must be the change and not an external force. We are the flow, and we have the internal strength of moving as a flow, not by command, if not by integrity.

Maybe it just me, but i sense that growing and growing.
 

canislulu

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This thread seems to be stuck in the same 2 Party Trap that many in the United States think we are stuck in. My view is that things are so unstable this year that there is a real possibility of a third party win. Green Party Jill Stein is on the ballot or available in 48 voting places giving her the possibility of winning the 270 electoral votes to win. I know that it is highly improbable. But it IS possible. This is the way I hear I Ching speaking when steve asks if Trump will win and is given the answer 26.1.2.6 > 15. I hear Yi saying. NO. There will be a Great Taming. 26.1 There is danger in a Trump presidency, i.e, danger of something like a civil war. 26.2 There is danger in a Clinton presidency of continuing the proxy war with Russia being fought in Syria. 26.2 Both of these corrupt campaigns will fall apart and be humbled. 26.6 Heaven will clear the way for a campaign with Integrity.

On the day I saw steve's reading I asked about the possibility of Jill Stein winning the election and received Hexagram 27 unchanging. The United States is going through the Jaws of an initiation in which the country has the possibility of correcting its source of nourishment. It remains to be seen. It will depend on people breaking out of the two party trap and availing themselves of the information available on social media. The corporate media is not telling the story accurately of what is afoot on the ground in the U.S.
 
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diamanda

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This thread seems to be stuck in the same 2 Party Trap
And yet many of us who have posted have said that it's very possible none of the two will win.

I asked about the possibility of Jill Stein winning the election and received Hexagram 27 unchanging
In my experience, 27 unchanging means that the hunger will remain unsatisfied. I don't see JS winning with such an answer (although I hope I'm wrong).
 

canislulu

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And yet many of us who have posted have said that it's very possible none of the two will win.


In my experience, 27 unchanging means that the hunger will remain unsatisfied. I don't see JS winning with such an answer (although I hope I'm wrong).
OK. I see your point. This thread is not stuck in the 2 Party Trap.

Hexagram 27 unchanging is the very first hexagram I ever cast. I was living in Cleveland, OH at the time and a sand tray therapist I was seeing suggested that I needed a "guide" and encouraged me to learn about the I Ching. I asked about a trip I was hoping to make to Hawaii to study for one month at a lomi lomi massage therapy school run by Nerita Machado. It didn't really make practical sense for me to do that. I wasn't sure what 27 Unchanging meant. Would I be a meal for a shark in the ocean? I haven't thought about that reading for a long time. I can say that I will never regret my decision to go and do the training. I feel fortunate that I was able to do so.
 

steve

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The email investigation has been reopened into clintons emails, this is possibly the surprise maybe

Steve
 

soshin

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Just an observation:

I wonder why so many of us ask yes-or-no questions when it is common knowledge in Yi-circles that questions like "Will A or B win the election/the football game/the supertalent show?" are not exactly the most useful ones?

In my opinion such an approach leads nowhere.

We should concentrate more on questions which clarify what undercurrents there are at work in the minds of the voting populace; how well each of the candidates is able ride the waves of news cycles (like pussygate or FBI-letter) and so on.

Or for example questions about the Dao of the next administration. Or how the respective personalities of both candidates make them more or less likely to get the trust of the majority of voters.

I think we don´t have too many questions in the original thread but too few questions who reach a little deeper.

Just my two Eurocents. :)
 

flashlight

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What are the chances Clinton can still win the elections?
42.1.2.3.5 to 18

If one considers the resulting hex as the backdrop/context, her chances still look good, but it will be topsy turvy until the end.

Regardless who wins, the US is facing an hard long pass of (re) nation building. The damage, even to kids, is profound and can't be swept under the rug. I'm very sad.
 

soshin

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What are the chances Clinton can still win the elections?
42.1.2.3.5 to 18

If one considers the resulting hex as the backdrop/context, her chances still look good, but it will be topsy turvy until the end.

Regardless who wins, the US is facing an hard long pass of (re) nation building. The damage, even to kids, is profound and can't be swept under the rug. I'm very sad.
I hear you, but it hardly gets any more auspicious for Mrs. Clinton than that, I´d say. :)

Hexagram 18 in the background and the probable future indeed shows a lot of work on what has been spoiled. And by god, it has been a lot. This election was beyond belief. On many occassions I asked myself: Is this really happening?

As someone said:

Do you see it way up high? Way beyond the clouds, almost invisible?
That´s rock bottom.

This election had traumatic consequences not only for people in the United States but worldwide.





But here comes 42
----

It furthers one To undertake something.
It furthers one to cross the great water.


It furthers one to accomplish great deeds.
Supreme good fortune. No blame.


Ten pairs of tortoises cannot oppose it.
Constant perseverance brings good fortune.

The king presents him before God.
Good fortune.


One is enriched through unfortunate events.
No blame, if you are sincere
And walk in the middle,
And report with a seal to the prince.


If in truth you have a kind heart, ask not.
Supreme good fortune.
Truly, kindness will be recognized as your virtue.


-------

Obviously I am not American, but I think I can speak for the overwhelming majority of people in countries worldwide when I say:

First:
Thanks God this psychological trauma misnamed as election will be over soon.

And second and foremost:

Good old Europe is setting all his hopes in the wise choice of the good people of the United States. This election is not about emails or about grabbing p*ssies. But about someone who asks why he shouldn´t use nuclear weapons when he has them; who wants to proliferate them to countries like Saudi Arabia and who thinks climate change is something the Chinese made up.





 

diamanda

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What are the chances Clinton can still win the elections? 42.1.2.3.5 > 18
With 18 as the resulting hexagram, I'd say her chances to win are far too slim.

On the other US elections thread, one of the first questions was
"Will Bernie be our next President", 41.1.3 > 18, and we know how this turned out.

Also there was 18 resulting for one? some? of the losing candidates for the UK conservatives leader election in September. Can't remember, and can't find the thread. Does anyone know - has that thread been deleted?
 

steve

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I believe Clinton is so much more dangerous for the world she is not progressive she is a NEOCON. She voted for the Iraq war which was a regime change and has really distabilised the middle east, whats worse she repeated the same mistake in Libya. Now she wants regime change is Syria, my god there will be nobody left there because they will be in Europe. The more instability in the Middle EAST the more refugees.

For many US citizens obama's policies are not working ie obama care. So with her policies its more of the same.
Clinton does not care about the american people, just investigate wiki leaks, she herself has said you need a private and public face. The clinton foundation is a way for her and bill to line their pockets.

What they have done to the people of Hati is disgusting at best, go ask them what they think of the clintons.

Her criminal investigation is open again, she is finished, where is her trusted assistant? she i off the campaign trail, really who do they think they are fooling. The democrats have ran this campaign like they are in the 1930's are think people really still fall for these shenanigans, if she won this now i would be astonished.

She is part of the group of people who want one government which has an eliete class and we work for them.
Lastly clinton has bad relations with russia which concerns me, she has already blamed them for wiki leaks of which they have no basis.
Trump wants better relations with russia not worse.
Trump says dumb things but clinton does dumb things. I will feel much safer with Trump in office.

The democrats could have chosen anybody except clinton and won but they wanted her to do the establishments bidding and its backfired. There greed has hung them.
I dont know what all these donors will say that gave them money to their foundation thinking they will win.
LOL quite angry I would expect.
I really believe this is the end for the clintons this time. If they were confident uma abedin would still be with clinton.
They know whats on the laptop

Steve
 

flashlight

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@Diamanda -- Not re this thread per se -- and perhaps I should post elsewhere -- but I'm curious about how to interpret resulting hexes.
In this thread, you appear to take it as the future outcome. In my thread on "kitty from US", you indicated that the fan yao is what the answer is not.
I'd learned that the resulting hex, especially in the case of several changing lines, should be read as the context/backdrop and that the fan yao provides details on the meanings of the changing lines.
So I'm wondering whether I've been interpreting the wrong way all this time.
There are situations, such as this reading on Clinton, where the difference in interpretation method makes for wholly opposite meanings.
If Hillary has a moment to comment on this, that would be great!
@Steve, yes Clinton is a Neocon and yes there are lots of things about her professionally and personally that are not thrilling (understatement), but nothing is more frightening and dangerous than having Trump elected.

What are the chances that a third person might end up president in the aftermath of the elections?
5.3.6 to 61

Line 6

'Entering into the pit.
There are uninvited guests – three people come.
Honour them: in the end, good fortune.'
 

steve

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I think everyone and anyone in the forum should post on this thread, its politics and not everyone agrees "thank god" otherwise we would all be walking around in silver jumpsuits and no hair.

In Australia there is saying never bring politics or football to the pub and for good reason.

So many may not vote and vote green , to me thats a wasted vote however others will not comply feeling they have been pushed into a scenario that is totally distasteful.
My perspective in the reading is that this will open up a path in the future for a third candidate
5.3.6 to 61,

There is only one week to go before the whip comes down, i believe the surprise was the complete dismantling of the democratic party ( clintons fbi investigation) lets face it when these people are on your case they never go away, even if you are a clinton.

Steve
 

diamanda

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Flashlight, I don't read the 2nd hex as context, other people do.
I read it in sequence, e.g. in 42.1.2.3.5 > 18, increase ends quickly (4 changing lines) then decay.
There are many methods to interpret the I Ching (and threads about them), I chose what works best for me.

As about choosing between two evils...
Clinton is pro-war. That, to me, makes her way more dangerous globally.

What are the chances that a third person might end up president in the aftermath of the elections?
5.3.6 > 61

5.3 - something stuck in the mud. An enemy arrives.
5.6 - someone stuck helpless in a pit. External help arrives.
61 - protection, under cover, truth hidden.
From this answer, I don't think there will be a third person as president.
 

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