Ultimatum.... 50.2 > 56

[watersprite2]

Oh gosh guys. I've come to a point in my relationship where I can't hold out anymore. After over 6 months I want to feel secure that we are "together".

We had an argument about a separate issue... But whilst getting things in the open... I felt compelled to write this message...

Before we do chat... I want you to process what I'm about to say further.

I can no longer compromise my own needs because you have unresolved emotional baggage with your ex.

My ego can't handle it. I feel like a prize horse having to play second fiddle to a donkey. (yes the donkey being your ex) So of course, your jokes rub salt into my wound.

I want a guy who I feel comfortable to call my boyfriend after 6 months of dating. Who tells me he loves me more than once per month. It's not an outrageous expectation ...so even having to say this directly infuriates me.

Putting on your calming voice to pacify me with cryptic bullshit like "because of my situation" is no longer going to work because THIS situation it is not healthy for me.

So process what you want carefully because I'm pretty certain of what I don't."

I sent this last night and am suffering from anxiety now... Because this is it really.

I asked the yi: what is the outcome of our conversation...

50.2 > 56

There's something of value to the traveller?

I was thinking this could mean we finally become official before he travels for work?

 

[breakmov]

Ultimatum.... 50.2 > 56​

I asked the yi: what is the outcome of our conversation...

50.2 > 56

You need to be careful, this line does not permit "Ultimatums". Although you feel that you have every right to influence this relationship to participate in "cooking up" a higher purpose between the two of you, don't forget that you are the "traveler".
- The "strange land" is him and the ex. .... their situation existed before you arrived.
Notice that you have a wind trigram that does not allow initiatives like "ultimatums". If you want to get a "sense of the fragrance" of this line2 in terms of "down wind trigram", just look at what line two of hex57 says.
50.2>56 shows a situation (the conversation about your relationship) in which you are a "traveler" passing through a strange land (his past and the ex) and therefore need much care, gentleness and patience from your part to influence that Higher Purpose for your relationship.
In the conversation that I'm sure you two will have, it would be important that you put aside this "ultimatum posture" and assume from de begining that, despite 6 months of a promising relationship, you are still on a "road without certainty" and that you need to move forward carefully (almost like line 2 of hex57).

but I think you already feel that ....

I sent this last night and am suffering from anxiety now... Because this is it really.

breakmov

 

[watersprite2]

Wow, what an insightful interpretation. Thank you so much

 

[marybluesky]

I loved your passionate reaction. While many people, women in particular, blame the ones who act on their emotions and invite us to be always mild & diplomatic, I really appreciate this true, volcanic reactions.

The outcome is good whatever it be. Two different interpretations of the line come to my mind:
1- He is the afflicted one who can't come nearer; good fortune.
2-The ex would no longer come near and be compared to you. Again, good fortune.

 

[watersprite2]

Thanks Marybluesky....

I still haven't heard from him. My anxiety is actually getting worse. I know I should have stayed silent but instead I wrote...

"I'm sorry if my words were harsh. Please understand... it's very difficult to love someone and be in this situation. I'm not used to it."

I asked the yi "why hasn't he replied?"

54.1 > 40

I take this as he reflecting on what I said - concubine setting herself free.

Is it over?

46.5 > 48

A small step in the right direction but nothing much changes.

Any hope we can move forward together after everything I've said?

5.4 > 43

Whilst I'm determined to forge ahead I must wait patiently?

Goddammit I'm just dying inside right now!!

 

[becalm]

Don't give in - You spoke up for yourself and how this situation is making you feel.
He may well be processing what you said and trying to work things out from his own perspective BUT remember staying silent is also an Empowering stance because he knows that you want an answer.

Hex 5.4
You must stay silent to Empower yourself otherwise you're coming from a place of emotional/mental agitation.

Once you're centred things will be clearer.

 

[watersprite2]

Thank you becalm. Things are clearer but I have to explain the whole story from the beginning.

Basically, because I was feeling insecure about my status in the relationship, I became extra sensitive about remarks he would make in jest.... Like he told me once he knew I'd be "subservient" when he laid eyes on me... and that "if one can't help who they're attracted to then that doesn't bode well for me"... "that cuddling me reminded him of what it was like when he used to have a girlfriend." and that after seeing my ex boyfriend "I'm batting above my average with him".

The straw that broke the camel's back was when his son said I resembled the former cleaner of him and his ex. I guess it upset me because I felt it was racial thing. Then he kept pushing the issue. Sooo... this is how it all started. I berated him with these messages.

"I'm not impressed by your comments this afternoon.

Humour reveals intelligence; so a person who consistently uses it in bad taste is just as mentally challenged as a person who can't take a joke. Do not EVER refer to me as being similar to your cleaning lady in front of your son again even in jest. Although I understand the need for discretion in your situation; I don't wish to think of you as an insensitive, uneducated, unrefined, hustling rube who isn't worth my time. I suggest you develop the humility to appreciate others rather than accidentally offending them."

He responds "yeah sorry I was out of line. I saw you were upset, I just wondered how much. Now I know"

My response: I'm not offended by the innocent remarks of a little boy. But you my friend, are not innocent. You deliberately say insulting things to test my insecurities. I've witnessed you do this to others. You saw I was upset and you didn't apologise until I brought it up? Wow. I don't mind being teased but a man who lacks manners and consideration for my feelings is not a man I wish to affiliate myself with even if he's great in bed. I help you cook and clean out of love and care not because I'm desperate to be with you. Remember that.

His response: "we need to chat"

That's when I sent him the ultimatum that started this thread. After which he went silent for a long while.

This morning he replied.

"Sorry, I'm not punishing you with my silence. Sorry I've taken so long to reply. I had written something to your initial comments after taking time as you say to process what you said and how it impacts not just you and I....but my other relationships with my friends and family. I haven't figured out how to digest all you said even though I understand you feel just.... I'm unsure I agree with all your remarks."

So I asked the Yi;

How will things evolve with us from this point? 40.3.5.6 > 44

So I guess I'm the powerful woman in 44 who helps kill the evil hawk?

Can our bond deepen through my helping him to heal? 7.4 > 40

Be disciplined. Give him some time to rest and we'll make it?

 

[Trojina]

Is this the same guy you were asking about a while back


22.5 >37 how will he treat my heart? | I Ching Community (onlineclarity.co.uk)

(1) Renting a room 24 unchanging | I Ching Community (onlineclarity.co.uk)

and this one


The one on a boat with a kid

 

[Trojina]

Oh gosh guys. I've come to a point in my relationship where I can't hold out anymore. After over 6 months I want to feel secure that we are "together".

Your answer was way back in those old threads.

 

[watersprite2]

Is this the same guy you were asking about a while back


22.5 >37 how will he treat my heart? | I Ching Community (onlineclarity.co.uk)

(1) Renting a room 24 unchanging | I Ching Community (onlineclarity.co.uk)

and this one


The one on a boat with a kid

Reading back now to other people's answers... YES!! So accurate.

 

[kareeva]

watersprite2,

With regard to 50.2....

“The Vessel contains something real.
My companion is afflicted,
Cannot approach me.
Good fortune.”

....In Line 2 of hexagram 50, I think you are the person with the full vessel, and that your full vessel is your inner strength, strong spirit, and keen intelligence. After reading through this thread, I get the sense that this person cannot keep up with you. He just might not be a match for you emotionally, spiritually, or intellectually - and just like line 2 says, this sparks envy in him. And when people get envious, rather than build themselves up, they try to cut others down. I think this is likely happening indirectly on a subconscious level.

As for the outcome of your conversation with him....I think the image of hexagram 56 - Transition - strongly implies that there is no need to tell this person about himself anymore; perhaps it is best to avoid prolonged discussions. I get the impression that he just might NOT be able to handle an intense discussion; he might not have the emotional/spiritual/intellectual "bandwidth", thus the short answers and long silences are periods of time when he is "buffering". Here's a quote explaining the image:

"The Image:
Legge: A fire on the mountain -- the image of Transition.
The superior man exerts cautious wisdom in his punishments, and does not permit prolonged litigation."​

You are the superior person, by the way, when you are cautious with your punishments (refrain from any more detailed explanations of his bad behaviors) and when you do not permit prolonged litigation (do keep telling him about himself). I think you asked something like, "what will be the outcome of the conversation?". This interpretation of the resulting hexagram might not be an outcome of your conversation, but perhaps a suggestion for how you should handle the conversation, or a least a strong implication that the situation will not lend itself to lengthy conversation due to his low "bandwidth" and tendency toward "buffering".

Also, read this 2006 post from Hilary regarding 50.2. Here are a few quotes from that post that I strung together: "You have something good within you...but your close companion is distressed....You might want to alleviate their distress by sharing, but it can’t be done"

Back to the line reading, Good fortune is yours because of what is within you! Perhaps it is time to focus more on the "something real" that is within you. It seems you have been paying a lot of attention to him - his issues, his needs, his healing. What if you focus that energy inward? Further nurture that which is within you so that another person's affliction cannot harm you. I get the sense that you are so incredibly strong, and that you have what it takes to fuel your own personal transition - whatever that may be.

~kareeva

 

[diamanda]

what is the outcome of our conversation 50.2 > 56
He has already got a new lover.

This man is extremely rude and behaves sadistically towards you.
You can't force him to be a nice person, you can't force him to love you.
Cut your losses and run before you allow him to hurt you even further.

 

[watersprite2]

what is the outcome of our conversation 50.2 > 56
He has already got a new lover.

This man is extremely rude and behaves sadistically towards you.
You can't force him to be a nice person, you can't force him to love you.
Cut your losses and run before you allow him to hurt you even further.

I know without a doubt, he does not have another lover. It would be impossible to hide this from me.

He is rude to everyone around him, not just me. The only reason I carried on with this is because in contrast he has been super generous in other aspects and our connection has a beautiful side. Anyway I will keep everyone posted

 

[watersprite2]

watersprite2,

With regard to 50.2....

“The Vessel contains something real.
My companion is afflicted,
Cannot approach me.
Good fortune.”

....In Line 2 of hexagram 50, I think you are the person with the full vessel, and that your full vessel is your inner strength, strong spirit, and keen intelligence. After reading through this thread, I get the sense that this person cannot keep up with you. He just might not be a match for you emotionally, spiritually, or intellectually - and just like line 2 says, this sparks envy in him. And when people get envious, rather than build themselves up, they try to cut others down. I think this is likely happening indirectly on a subconscious level.

As for the outcome of your conversation with him....I think the image of hexagram 56 - Transition - strongly implies that there is no need to tell this person about himself anymore; perhaps it is best to avoid prolonged discussions. I get the impression that he just might NOT be able to handle an intense discussion; he might not have the emotional/spiritual/intellectual "bandwidth", thus the short answers and long silences are periods of time when he is "buffering". Here's a quote explaining the image:

"The Image:
Legge: A fire on the mountain -- the image of Transition.
The superior man exerts cautious wisdom in his punishments, and does not permit prolonged litigation."​

You are the superior person, by the way, when you are cautious with your punishments (refrain from any more detailed explanations of his bad behaviors) and when you do not permit prolonged litigation (do keep telling him about himself). I think you asked something like, "what will be the outcome of the conversation?". This interpretation of the resulting hexagram might not be an outcome of your conversation, but perhaps a suggestion for how you should handle the conversation, or a least a strong implication that the situation will not lend itself to lengthy conversation due to his low "bandwidth" and tendency toward "buffering".

Also, read this 2006 post from Hilary regarding 50.2. Here are a few quotes from that post that I strung together: "You have something good within you...but your close companion is distressed....You might want to alleviate their distress by sharing, but it can’t be done"

Back to the line reading, Good fortune is yours because of what is within you! Perhaps it is time to focus more on the "something real" that is within you. It seems you have been paying a lot of attention to him - his issues, his needs, his healing. What if you focus that energy inward? Further nurture that which is within you so that another person's affliction cannot harm you. I get the sense that you are so incredibly strong, and that you have what it takes to fuel your own personal transition - whatever that may be.

~kareeva

Very interesting, thank you for being so generous and taking the time to write.

I think you hit the nail on the head... He likes to cut others down out of some psychological issue.

He told me that when he was a kid he was always never good enough in comparison to his brother... And his parents constantly criticized him.

He is on one hand the sweetest person I've ever met. He has so many good points otherwise I'd never spend time with him.

I think that he is cruel because on a subconscious level he is pushing the other person to stand up for themselves. He sees his own kindness as a weakness so he wants to be told off. Maybe he attracted a person like me who is kind but also has a temper when taken for granted - to help himself improve.

 

[diamanda]

@watersprite2 of course he's giving you something sweet along with the poison, otherwise you wouldn't stay. Don't expect him to change or improve, people like him can't and don't change (except for the worse). Finding excuses for his appalling behaviour also won't make him change.

 

[rosada]

You asked the I Ching, "What is the outcome of our situation?"
I see 50.2-56 as describing the ultimatum. You told him,
"(50.2) l am a person of value. If you can’t handle that then I'm (56.) moving on.”
In other words, not giving a prediction for the outcome but mirroring what you told him. Maybe leaving it up to you to decide the outcome - no indication that he changes so will you really leave if he doesn't wake up?
---

The fact that he seems open to discussing the issues seems very promising to me. Originally I thought if these hexagrams were forced to predict the future I would have to read them as saying "You will ultimately move on from this relationship," but now I think they could be encouraging you that the two of you will ultimately move on from this situation, this respect issue! It is possible you will be able to wake him up!

But imho, I do think the important thing is that you hold to your ultimatum. As in if he disrespects you in public ever again don't smile sweetly - speak up or walk out of the room immediately! For now I think you must ask him to meet with you and his child and have him tell the boy it was wrong of him to make disparaging remarks. Children do not forget and that unfeeling comment from his father was literally teaching him it was fun to treat you - and all women - badly. He needs to correct that and doing it with you present sends the message that you and the father are good now, because the child would not have missed how Dad's words hurt you and he needs to see that when they are wrong real men apologize to women too.

 

[watersprite2]

You asked the I Ching, "What is the outcome of our situation?"
I see 50.2-56 as describing the ultimatum. You told him,
"(50.2) l am a person of value. If you can’t handle that then I'm (56.) moving on.”
In other words, not giving a prediction for the outcome but mirroring what you told him. Maybe leaving it up to you to decide the outcome - no indication that he changes so will you really leave if he doesn't wake up?
---

The fact that he seems open to discussing the issues seems very promising to me. Originally I thought if these hexagrams were forced to predict the future I would have to read them as saying "You will ultimately move on from this relationship," but now I think they could be encouraging you that the two of you will ultimately move on from this situation, this respect issue! It is possible you will be able to wake him up!

But imho, I do think the important thing is that you hold to your ultimatum. As in if he disrespects you in public ever again don't smile sweetly - speak up or walk out of the room immediately! For now I think you must ask him to meet with you and his child and have him tell the boy it was wrong of him to make disparaging remarks. Children do not forget and that unfeeling comment from his father was literally teaching him it was fun to treat you - and all women - badly. He needs to correct that and doing it with you present sends the message that you and the father are good now, because the child would not have missed how Dad's words hurt you and he needs to see that when they are wrong real men apologize to women too.

I completely agree with everything you've said. I actually think your interpretation of the line resonates with me the most. I went through a couple of days crying my eyes out because I am ready to walk. I never go back on my ultimatums. I left the father of my child when he wouldn't behave properly so I'm 100% ready to let this guy go.

This guy said he loves me very much and hasn't felt this way in so long... and he's still processing everything because a new relationship is scary for him - he was broken hearted by his wife.

I asked this morning...

"what will be his decision?" bad question i know.

50.1.5 > 1

I think it seems positive whatever happens. Creating something new and upgraded?
I will keep everyone updated on results.

 

[becalm]

You’re in a co dependant relationship. Once you stop being co dependant from your end...The End

 

[watersprite2]

You’re in a co dependant relationship. Once you stop being co dependant from your end...The End

You mean the relationship ends? Or just the situation just ends?

 

[becalm]

The relationship ends unless the other co depender steps up. Research co dependent relationships, might give you some insight.

 

[watersprite2]

The relationship ends unless the other co depender steps up. Research co dependent relationships, might give you some insight.

Thank you becalm. I actually understand co dependancy quite well. It's interesting you mentioned this because that is absolutely what I was suffering from.

I have deep fear of heartbreak and loss because my father died when I was a child and a boyfriend whom I had a close relationship with killed himself when i was a teen when we couldn't be together.

I'm co dependant also on tarot and iching to help me cope with uncertainty.

When he didn't respond for over a day - I thought everything was over. I went to a dark place of loneliness, i actually felt physical pain in my heart and i poured out my emotions.

I was addicted to the passionate sex, it was so emotionally connected, tender yet sexy and incredible for us both that the thought of it ending sent shockwaves through me.

He asked to see me tonight and I actually said no because I feel like I'm coming out of the addiction and every day I'm without him i feel better. So Friday I'll see him for his birthday.

I'll update the reading

 

[becalm]

Friday I'll see him for his birthday.

Why?

 

[watersprite2]

Why?

Because he's turning 40 and has done a lot for me. It's not actually his fault I became addicted to him. I was so depressed after my separation with my previous partner, I had not many friends or much of a life because I'm still relatively new to this island.

He introduced me to a new world of people, shared everything he had with me. Taught me how to drive and play guitar. Has tolerated my dramas with my ex and helped me through it all whilst dealing with his own terrible situation. He even revived my lemon tree .

In reality, the good things about him outweighed a few insensitive comments, that's why I stuck by him.

So to leave him alone on his milestone birthday is just mean, on my part.

 

[Win_Po]

Interesting thread, the only advice I can offer is this: talk. Text communication is a too often used when people need to sit face to face. Compassion and kindness goes two ways, for him and you, be present as best as you can without anger or fear when you do talk.

 

[watersprite2]

I have some updates and results for readings i cast yesterday and today.

We were supposed to meet tonight (this was on Wednesday)...

He simply disappeared. He's never done this before. Never cancelled plans even once. I texted him at 5pm to ask if I should come around 8pm.... He hasn't been online at all (I checked Instagram too)..

Yesterday I asked how should I deal with tomorrow night "45.1.4.6 > 42"

I take this to reflect my increasing excitement to see him... Only to be disappointed in line 6.

Will my expectations to see him tonight be disappointed?

52.2 > 18

Yes. I cannot repair the damage tonight as planned. OR... Yes and he'll have to repair the damage.

I asked "why did he disappear?“

4.6 > 7

I take this to mean he had a huge argument with his ex about the scheduling (7) of their child (4) and I shouldnt punish him for it? (line six)... He would be collecting him tomorrow morning normally... Maybe something bad happened.

I messaged to ask if he's ok and I hope nothing bad happened. I decided to not attack him.

How will he respond to my last message.

13.3 > 25

Presuming the worst is unhealthy for a relationship?

I keep results updated xxx

 

[watersprite2]

Update!!

Well... how do I condense this long story.

On Wednesday last week, I was having lunch with my ex and son, and by chance we encountered "B's" (my new guy) best friend. I thought they knew each other so I told B about it. B called his friend and asked "are you with x?" his friend innocently passed phone to my ex and they had an awkward introduction to each other.

I also asked Yi whether I should expect to see B on the weekend. I got 11.6 > 26.

And I asked about whether it would be dangerous to introduce my ex to him.

62.2.5.6 > 44

The result was, yes I did see him but he was in a very sad state.

He said that his friend warned him about me... that my ex told him I cheated on him with B (which is not true)... B got upset, drunk with his friend and distracted himself with drugs and hippies - passing out for 24 hours.

SO 4.6 > 7..... He intended to meet but didn't have the discipline to not overdo it the night before.

62.2.5.6 > 44.... I'm the dangerous woman and my ex cannot be trusted in this moment... Or it could have been pointing out the dangerous liason between B's friend and my ex... and I should pay attention the details of that encounter>

11.6 > 26 We spent the weekend together and made progress through talking... but he was extremely depressed about the reality of his life.

50.2 which started this thread...

I chose not to talk about the ultimatum because he was really in a bad place emotionally and I could see that actually there's no way he can actually commit to a relationship properly at present. He was having a mental breakdown. So I will give things a little more time to heal.

 

[dfreed]

got as a response: 50.2 > 56 and then within about a week's time you got ...

54.1 > 40 and then
46.5 > 48 and then
5.4 > 43 and then
40.3.5.6 > 44 and then
7.4 > 40 and then
50.1.5 > 1 and then
45.1.4.6 > 42 and then
52.2 > 18 and then
13.3 > 25 and then
11.6 > 26 and then
62.2.5.6 > 44 and then
4.6 > 7 and then ....

So ... I thought about responding to your first query - 50.2 > 56, but first I have to ask:

Is it a waste of my time to respond to 50.2 > 56 because you've moved on from that? And ...
Are you even paying attention to the Yi's responses here (which, if not, would also make it a waste of my time to respond)? I know affairs of the heart can be troubling and confusing, but ... if it were me I don't know how I'd make sense - or even begin to make sense - of all this.

D

 

[watersprite2]

54.1 > 40 and then
46.5 > 48 and then
5.4 > 43 and then
40.3.5.6 > 44 and then
7.4 > 40 and then
50.1.5 > 1 and then
45.1.4.6 > 42 and then
52.2 > 18 and then
13.3 > 25 and then
11.6 > 26 and then
62.2.5.6 > 44 and then
4.6 > 7 and then ....

So ... I thought about responding to your first query - 50.2 > 56, but first I have to ask:

Is it a waste of my time to respond to 50.2 > 56 because you've moved on from that? And ...
Are you even paying attention to the Yi's responses here (which, if not, would also make it a waste of my time to respond)? I know affairs of the heart can be troubling and confusing, but ... if it were me I don't know how I'd make sense - or even begin to make sense - of all this.

D

Well those were readings for different questions regarding the same person.

I only posted the other readings because I can share results of what happened.

Nothing is a waste of time... It's all learning...

 

[dfreed]

Watersprite2, I am curious which translation you are using?

 

[dfreed]

50.2 reads: "There is food in the ting. My comrades are envious, But they cannot harm me. Good fortune."

I'm not exactly sure how this applies to your situation and your question: 'what is the outcome of our conversation?' You started with:

Putting on your calming voice to pacify me with cryptic bullshit like "because of my situation" is no longer going to work because THIS situation it is not healthy for me.

And you ended with: ... 'he was having a mental breakdown. So I will give things a little more time to heal'.

So, it sounds like there's 'no harm' here. And that you're not letting either his 'cryptic bullshit' or his 'mental breakdown' change the situation at all. So, there is perhaps 'good fortune' in the form of stability, but also, nothing has changed.

d.