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What are the consequences for the victims of bullying? Reading: Hex 17: 4.5.6 <> 27

my_key

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What are the consequences for the victims of bullying? Reading: Hex 17: 4.5.6 <> 27

My immediate attention was taken by the unchanging lower trigrams. Inner being subjected to and remaining in shock. In accordance with this their outer world changes from one where they could be ‘The Joyous Dancer’ to a world where all is stilled or stopped. For me this all speaks of Traumatisation (with a capital T).

Hex 17 <> Hex 27: Following through ‘The Tigers Mouth’ with the Hexagram meanings, courtesy of Karcher, being 'Leaving old grounds for dissention behind' & 'correcting the source of nourishment'.

Also interesting here are the consequences for the victim being coupled with the hexagram that showed how the character of a bully is formed, in my previous cast. Hex 17 and 18 inextricably linked.

The consequences for the victim are such that they are advised in 17 to ‘turn towards inner darkness to enter a reposing pause’. By doing so they are taken away from the horrors they have experienced. In worst cases of bullying or abuse, suppression or repression of traumatising experiences are the consequences for victims as one of the few early defence weapons that they have in their armoury Here in their inner darkness is a sanctuary for healing, where in context of 27 reflection and discrimination are advocated as paramount ways for healing. I like the way Karcher comments on the image of 27 ‘Correct the way things are nourished and nourish the ability to correct things.’ Sound guidance for the victim although how long this takes to alter the truths the victim now carries, e.g. standing up to the bully and more besides, is indeterminable. The nuclear of 17 is 53 Gradual Progress.

Following has many associated key words / phrases. One being ‘hunter and prey’. It also has meaning of pursing something and following it. It can carry a sense of following what is inevitable, but being adaptable and following it in a way appropriate to the time. The universe may have dealt you a bum hand however now you have been dealt it you now have to play it as best you can.

How do the consequences manifest in the world of the victim

17.4 – In the beginning, traumatised, the connection with old reality is severed. New truths manifest in the world that that are beyond control. The old has become distorted and the new has no frame of referenceso nothing makes sense. Trapped, you hunt for ways out but still nothing makes sense. You follow every false trail until eventually you notice the bread crumbs trail that can lead to the way out. Forwards to a newer authentic you.

17.5 – When you discover, or re-discover, the awareness of the way your outer world now is, you realise what has been stolen from you. This stimulates an inner regrouping, the authentic you is rekindled, and with it comes a brief glimpse of a light at the end of the tunnel. This new light becomes the thing you now strive to follow.

17.6 – The Victim have gone as far as they can. They see their world and their existence differently however the situation still binds and ties them. There is a need to make a sacrifice and to adopt a more honest perspective. A sacrifice, worthy of a king, that will enable disentanglement from the chains that hold them. A sacrifice in preparation for the next step, from 17.6 into 18-land and so to begin the real work renovating what has been spoiled within them by the bully.

I get a strong image here of the hurts and wounds that are being passed from one to another, from generation to generation: bully to victim; hunter to prey. There is a ‘viscous’ cycle in play here – the bully creates the victim, who can become the bully that creates the next victim – 18,17,18, 17, 18, 17. Only a wise sage can exhibit the right personal characteristics and be strong enough to break that chain.

The two, bully and victim, are inextricably bound, perhaps, even at some higher spiritual level. As Wilhelm states “So the sage comes back into the world and aids the other in his work. Thus there develops an eternal tie between the two”.

….or maybe it’s nothing like this at all.

I thought I'd post this as a seperate thread to keep the bully and the victim apart. Again it would be great if anyone would like to share other perspectives on the reading. This seems all a bit more of a complex situation and that what I have written only scratches the surface. Aditionally if anyone has any general life insights they have gained on the consequences for the victims I'm sure that would all add to the richness of this thread.

Good Luck
 
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rosada

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It seems the I Ching is not so much telling us what happens to the victim but rather how to respond to a bully, how to avoid being a victim:

17.4
I see 17.4 as describing how bullies shake the victim's faith in themselves and the overall fairness of the Universe, "Following makes a catch." One has their ideal, like Life is Fair, and yet it doesn't always turn out that way and to cling to this belief when circumstances prove this is not true leads to danger: "Constancy pitfall."

Yet the I Ching reassures us it is not wrong to continue to believe in the good. "With truth and confidence, holding to your path with clarity. How can this be wrong?"
Perhaps advice to maintain your faith but chart a safe course. Praise the Lord and pass the ammunition.

17.5
More reassurance that even though we must make changes, adapt to reality, we can still maintain our positive outlook and achieve our goals by being true to our beliefs.
"True and confident in excellence. Good fortune."

17.6
"Seized and bound to it.
The king makes offering to the Western mountain."
This is a very curious line. Is this a warning that the victim can become bound to the persecutor? What is the offering to the Western mountain? Perhaps advice to hand one's suffering over to the higher power?
 
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becalm

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Super interesting threads my_key.....

Line 4 - The victim will struggle within themselves but also a chance for recovery if one perseveres and overcomes the effect it has on them.
Line 5 - A possibility of trying to find inner resolution through being honest with themselves and not just 'pretending' it didn't affect them. By finding their own true essence they can become the Leader of their own lives.
Line 6 - It could definitely lead to a complex life and a swaying between the remembered victim inside them and the leader in them that over came the bullying to lead the best life they can.

I think it's a very complex question to ask because everybody is going to respond differently. I watched a movie the other night and part of it was 2 friends being bullied at school. One became the victim, the other just put up with it but it didn't change the true essence of who he was.
 

my_key

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It seems the I Ching is not so much telling us what happens to the victim but rather how to respond to a bully, how to avoid being a victim:
I wasn't quite clear in all that might be going on in this totally changing upper trigram. Also I wondered if the question was all a bit too wordy - causing confusion. You could well be right here or we could both be wrong. I tried to condense my initial long winded interpretations.

17.4 - don't hang onto (follow) the aggression that has come into your world through the actions of the bully.
17.5 -keep focused on re-establishing the innocence in you. Re-kindle initial spark that has been blighted.
17.6 - You have to sacrifice yourself to deal with this situation (own it fully to heal it ) before you can even look at moving on. Maybe in healing it in you, you also heal it for the ancestor or the other.

New thought.......Trauma passes down through the generations until it comes to rest with a strong character who is up to the task of owning the trauma and the healing. Lots of work been done with children of holocaust survivors who have 'inherited' the trauma that their parents were subjected to. Parents not able to fully heal it in themselves. The job of healing gets energetically passed to the children and then their children until the faulty chain is remade.

These 3 make more sense for me now around the consequences for the victims - they become filled with anger (and other negative stuff); they carry a high risk of losing focus and becoming permanently blighted; they have to sacrifice their life, or a part of it, if they are to own the healing. That healing when completed puts a stop in the line and so brings healing to the perpetrator too.

...or it might be nothing like this.
 

my_key

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Super interesting threads my_key.....

Line 4 - The victim will struggle within themselves but also a chance for recovery if one perseveres and overcomes the effect it has on them.
Line 5 - A possibility of trying to find inner resolution through being honest with themselves and not just 'pretending' it didn't affect them. By finding their own true essence they can become the Leader of their own lives.
Line 6 - It could definitely lead to a complex life and a swaying between the remembered victim inside them and the leader in them that over came the bullying to lead the best life they can.

I think it's a very complex question to ask because everybody is going to respond differently. I watched a movie the other night and part of it was 2 friends being bullied at school. One became the victim, the other just put up with it but it didn't change the true essence of who he was.
Thanks. I've found them 'super interesting' too. Such a big thing in the world is bullying. Getting closer to it helps build an individual's understanding and grows a resilience that aids them from deeply falling foul of it in the future.

You are right that complexity of the question and each person's individual truth will bring about masses of different responses. How you see the reading will differ to a greater or lesser extent from how I or Rosada see it. I'm going round in circles trying to make sense of what you have said against, what rosada has said against what I said the first time and then the second time.

Way too dizzy now !! I hope the next person who posts knows all the 'right' answers. It'll help my brain settle down.
 
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becalm

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New thought.......Trauma passes down through the generations until it comes to rest with a strong character who is up to the task of owning the trauma and the healing. Lots of work been done with children of holocaust survivors who have 'inherited' the trauma that their parents were subjected to. Parents not able to fully heal it in themselves. The job of healing gets energetically passed to the children and then their children until the faulty chain is remade.
Absolutely agree with this - once I was diagnosed with PTSD a few years ago I realised that's exactly what my Mother has been carrying all her life too. I can see a lot of repeated lessons of mine happening with my youngest son but I'm hoping through all the healing I've done and continue to do he will not have to live such a 'bloody' life as I have.
Healing yourself has a domino effect on all who are 'psychically' connected to us/
 
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becalm

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Line 4 - The victim will struggle within themselves but also a chance for recovery if one perseveres and overcomes the effect it has on them.
Line 5 - A possibility of trying to find inner resolution through being honest with themselves and not just 'pretending' it didn't affect them. By finding their own true essence they can become the Leader of their own lives.
Line 6 - It could definitely lead to a complex life and a swaying between the remembered victim inside them and the leader in them that over came the bullying to lead the best life they can.
17.4 - don't hang onto (follow) the aggression that has come into your world through the actions of the bully.
17.5 -keep focused on re-establishing the innocence in you. Re-kindle initial spark that has been blighted.
17.6 - You have to sacrifice yourself to deal with this situation (own it fully to heal it ) before you can even look at moving on. Maybe in healing it in you, you also heal it for the ancestor or the other.
OMG really!! I so see the synchronicity in what we've both said here - particularly the first two lines.....hahahaha I guess it's our perspective from our own mind and emotion.
 

rosada

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We haven't discussed 27. Nourishment, the relating line. Perhaps the consequences for the victim comes down to the question of the two wolves, revenge or forgiveness and which one you feed.
 
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becalm

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We haven't discussed 27. Nourishment, the relating line. Perhaps the consequences for the victim comes down to the question of the two wolves, revenge or forgiveness and which one you feed.
Does it have to be one of those two things or can it be how you choose to Nourish your life from the bullying point forward. Nourish your life from a Victims perspective or Leader of your Own life perspective.
Bullies never seem to understand the impact they have on people and sometimes don't even remember the person they bullied but the bullied person never, ever forgets them.
 

my_key

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Absolutely agree with this - once I was diagnosed with PTSD a few years ago I realised that's exactly what my Mother has been carrying all her life too. I can see a lot of repeated lessons of mine happening with my youngest son but I'm hoping through all the healing I've done and continue to do he will not have to live such a 'bloody' life as I have.
Healing yourself has a domino effect on all who are 'psychically' connected to us/
Yes the psychic connection cannot be discounted. Looking at it again with respect to your healing. I'm sure that you have improved the life for your son, and the echoes of your mother. 17.6 though seems to be saying that it may not be all your job to do. You do your bit, make your sacrifice and then it's over to the next baton carrier. So your mother had PTSD too. Part of the healing job may have been your mothers ( perhaps not too successful), part yours and part may still lie with you son to heal.
 
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becalm

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Yes the psychic connection cannot be discounted. Looking at it again with respect to your healing. I'm sure that you have improved the life for your son, and the echoes of your mother. 17.6 though seems to be saying that it may not be all your job to do. You do your bit, make your sacrifice and then it's over to the next baton carrier. So your mother had PTSD too. Part of the healing job may have been your mothers ( perhaps not too successful), part yours and part may still lie with you son to heal.
Very good points my_key thank you. Not sure about my mother, maybe in some way she brought some healing but according to my oldest son she died with a lot of bitterness in her Heart. When I heard my son say that to me I became more determined to NOT do the same.
 

rosada

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Recently I came across a verse in the Bible (can't remember which one now) that basically said man cannot forgive, he doesn't have the power or the understanding, and that only God can actually forgive. I found this very helpful as to me this means we don't need to think about things too much or rationalize or try to twist our feelings around, we can just make our intention (our offerings to the Western mountain?) and say "Father forgive them". I do this now when ever old hurts or injustices come to mind and it works!
 

my_key

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We haven't discussed 27. Nourishment, the relating line. Perhaps the consequences for the victim comes down to the question of the two wolves, revenge or forgiveness and which one you feed.
Good point.
Hex 27 means ''correcting the source of nourishment'' according or Karcher and with his poetic approach looks at aspects of both nourishing and being nourished especially with regards to sacrifice to the ancestors.
He says "It means to take in an understand what is past in order to nourish the future, 'eating ancient virtue'.

Make of that what you will. It does kind of say heal the past in order to nourish the future. Similar to this

Does it have to be one of those two things or can it be how you choose to Nourish your life from the bullying point forward. Nourish your life from a Victims perspective or Leader of your Own life perspective.
Bullies never seem to understand the impact they have on people and sometimes don't even remember the person they bullied but the bullied person never, ever forgets them.
Bullies overwhelmed by their trauma may not be able to nourish anything other than the black wolf. Sometimes their lack of awareness consumes all. The black wolf is all consuming. Their empathy is not developed, their respect for others is low so they cannot remember clearly what they did or who they did it to.

As we all know beteween black and white there are at least 50 shades of grey, so it may not be just as simple as revenge or forgiveness. Maybe it's soething around this that is the sacrifice at 17.6?

@becalm you make a really important point. I think I would agree that for the victim not being recognised or remembered can be devastating. The act or acts of another that consumed their world means nought to the person that wrought them harm, The ultimate disempowerment: You and your world mean nothing to me. To my mind this is perhaps the worst consequence for the victim, but not clear where that fits into this reading.

That is perhaps why I was not impressed by Pritti Patel with her half hearted apology. She didn't recognise the people, recognise their feelings, recognise them as victims. She acknowledged them as nothing more than 'upset people' showing a total lack of empathy.
 

my_key

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Recently I came across a verse in the Bible (can't remember which one now) that basically said man cannot forgive, he doesn't have the power or the understanding, and that only God can actually forgive. I found this very helpful as to me this means we don't need to think about things too much or rationalize or try to twist our feelings around, we can just make our intention (our offerings to the Western mountain?) and say "Father forgive them". I do this now when ever old hurts or injustices come to mind and it works!
With that you remind me of "Thy will be done". Everything around me is going on over my head. I am but a leaf in the storm.
Also didn't someone say "Father forgive them for they know not what they do?" which kind of pushes the responsibility for forgiveness upstairs.

I do this now when ever old hurts or injustices come to mind and it works!
Is that the sacrifice of 17.6 I wonder?
 

MeltingPot247

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What are the consequences for the victims of bullying? Reading: Hex 17: 4.5.6 <> 27

My immediate attention was taken by the unchanging lower trigrams. Inner being subjected to and remaining in shock. In accordance with this their outer world changes from one where they could be ‘The Joyous Dancer’ to a world where all is stilled or stopped. For me this all speaks of Traumatisation (with a capital T).

Hex 17 <> Hex 27: Following through ‘The Tigers Mouth’ with the Hexagram meanings, courtesy of Karcher, being 'Leaving old grounds for dissention behind' & 'correcting the source of nourishment'.

Also interesting here are the consequences for the victim being coupled with the hexagram that showed how the character of a bully is formed, in my previous cast. Hex 17 and 18 inextricably linked.

The consequences for the victim are such that they are advised in 17 to ‘turn towards inner darkness to enter a reposing pause’. By doing so they are taken away from the horrors they have experienced. In worst cases of bullying or abuse, suppression or repression of traumatising experiences are the consequences for victims as one of the few early defence weapons that they have in their armoury Here in their inner darkness is a sanctuary for healing, where in context of 27 reflection and discrimination are advocated as paramount ways for healing. I like the way Karcher comments on the image of 27 ‘Correct the way things are nourished and nourish the ability to correct things.’ Sound guidance for the victim although how long this takes to alter the truths the victim now carries, e.g. standing up to the bully and more besides, is indeterminable. The nuclear of 17 is 53 Gradual Progress.

Following has many associated key words / phrases. One being ‘hunter and prey’. It also has meaning of pursing something and following it. It can carry a sense of following what is inevitable, but being adaptable and following it in a way appropriate to the time. The universe may have dealt you a bum hand however now you have been dealt it you now have to play it as best you can.

How do the consequences manifest in the world of the victim

17.4 – In the beginning, traumatised, the connection with old reality is severed. New truths manifest in the world that that are beyond control. The old has become distorted and the new has no frame of referenceso nothing makes sense. Trapped, you hunt for ways out but still nothing makes sense. You follow every false trail until eventually you notice the bread crumbs trail that can lead to the way out. Forwards to a newer authentic you.

17.5 – When you discover, or re-discover, the awareness of the way your outer world now is, you realise what has been stolen from you. This stimulates an inner regrouping, the authentic you is rekindled, and with it comes a brief glimpse of a light at the end of the tunnel. This new light becomes the thing you now strive to follow.

17.6 – The Victim have gone as far as they can. They see their world and their existence differently however the situation still binds and ties them. There is a need to make a sacrifice and to adopt a more honest perspective. A sacrifice, worthy of a king, that will enable disentanglement from the chains that hold them. A sacrifice in preparation for the next step, from 17.6 into 18-land and so to begin the real work renovating what has been spoiled within them by the bully.

I get a strong image here of the hurts and wounds that are being passed from one to another, from generation to generation: bully to victim; hunter to prey. There is a ‘viscous’ cycle in play here – the bully creates the victim, who can become the bully that creates the next victim – 18,17,18, 17, 18, 17. Only a wise sage can exhibit the right personal characteristics and be strong enough to break that chain.

The two, bully and victim, are inextricably bound, perhaps, even at some higher spiritual level. As Wilhelm states “So the sage comes back into the world and aids the other in his work. Thus there develops an eternal tie between the two”.

….or maybe it’s nothing like this at all.

I thought I'd post this as a seperate thread to keep the bully and the victim apart. Again it would be great if anyone would like to share other perspectives on the reading. This seems all a bit more of a complex situation and that what I have written only scratches the surface. Aditionally if anyone has any general life insights they have gained on the consequences for the victims I'm sure that would all add to the richness of this thread.

Good Luck
I'm responding simply out of awe of how well this question was answered and how you interpreted it. I witnessed and experienced a lot of abuse growing up...and from a very young age I physically defended others better than myself at times but grew stronger over time in some ways and the other areas I'm weak in I still work on.

I've read quite a few of your previous posts while exploring past threads, while trying to interpret my own and you seem like a really interesting person. I'm so curious to know more about who you are and where you are from 🤔☺️.

Thank you for sharing your thoughts here, I personally think/feel that they are very deep and profound.
 

my_key

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I'm responding simply out of awe of how well this question was answered and how you interpreted it.
It amazed me too, to the point of gobsmacked-ness how appropriately Yi responded to the question, not only in this one about the victim but also in this one about the making of the bully.
https://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/fri...on-a-bully-reading-hex-18-1-2-4-hex-30.31003/

I witnessed and experienced a lot of abuse growing up...and from a very young age I physically defended others better than myself at times but grew stronger over time in some ways and the other areas I'm weak in I still work on.
Witnessing and experiencing abuse is a very tough path to walk. It's good to hear that not only have you survived but that your strength and your power have grown over time. The real bonus is that you are even now able to recognise there is further work required. Be proud of the battles you have fought for others and of your own achievements.
I've read quite a few of your previous posts while exploring past threads, while trying to interpret my own and you seem like a really interesting person. I'm so curious to know more about who you are and where you are from 🤔☺️.

Thank you for sharing your thoughts here, I personally think/feel that they are very deep and profound.
I'm grateful for that feedback: your words carry a great generosity with them. We all have to help each other along the way, so I'm really glad you have found some of my posts helpful.

You can right click on my avatar to see a bit more about me and where I live. To quench your curiosity futher ..........my Avatar is a picture I took when I attended a Tom Jones concert. It's not unusual for me to take pictures at concerts!! (That's one for the older folk )

Good Luck
 
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MeltingPot247

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It amazed me too, to the point of gobsmacked-ness how appropriately Yi responded to the question, not only in this one about the victim but also in this one about the making of the bully.
https://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/fri...on-a-bully-reading-hex-18-1-2-4-hex-30.31003/


Witnessing and experiencing abuse is a very tough path to walk. It's good to hear that not only have you survived but that your strength and your power have grown over time. The real bonus is that you are even now able to recognise there is further work required. Be proud of the battles you have fought for others and of your own achievements.

I'm grateful for that feedback: your words carry a great generosity with them. We all have to help each other along the way, so I'm really glad you have found some of my posts helpful.

You can right click on my avatar to see a bit more about me and where I live. To quench your curiosity futher ..........my Avatar is a picture I took when I attended a Tom Jones concert. It's not unusual for me to take pictures at concerts!! (That's one for the older folk )

Good Luck
I like Tom Jones ...and have lots of respect for older folk.

Thank you for responding. I ching and Online Clarity forums are so interesting and enlightening. I can't even remember how I first came across this site because I ching was not something I'd ever heard of my whole life until 2018.

I can see myself checking in here now and again for the rest of my days.

Cheers to all 💞
 

my_key

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my_key

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Another thread on the theme of bullying for those who may be interested:


Good Luck
 

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