what should I do with this person now? Relationship question - 32.4.6. and 59.5.

[Juniperist]

Dear all,

I seem to come here every few years for a relationship question, I guess, because these questions seem to be so emotionally charged and I need others to pitch in and help me. My question was about a lover who after breaking up with me wants to remain friends (so mundane, right?). I am not sure if I can, or if I should, as I still have feelings for him and I feel heart-broken, even though I would like him as a friend as well, but I don't know whether this because I feel so sad about not having him in my life. I provided the whole story below for background, because this was not a relationship among equals (ie. I was invested more in it).

Question: What should I do with X now?
Answer: 32.4.6. to 18

Thinking I maybe did not specify my question enough, I also asked: Shall I try to be friends with X?
Answer: 59.5. to 4

In the first one, does the reply mean that me trying to have a friendship with him (even though the question does not state this clearly) means more of the confusion I have endured (during the relationship) with line 4 saying “there is no game in the field” hence really not a great idea to go with? But then, what is being repaired (18)? My sense of self-worth? Any other way to interpret this? Especially given also 59.5 below?

I have never gotten 59.5 before and I was really not sure how to interpret it. But the dispersion might mean that the relationship has ended, and that I am really confused with what I should do about now, but line 5 also seems to suggest that there is something positive to strive for in the situation. Is this the friendship? Does it mean that I need to let go of my ego (which makes me suffer by reminding me how he did not choose me) and cherish what is good about him as a friend? Does 4 refer to my inexperience?

Any thoughts, comments? Thank a lot.

Best,
J

________

So the background story: This person and I have been in a not so clear-type of relationship during the pandemic. We started dating around 2 months before the pandemic, but when the pandemic happened he chose to stay in the country where his kids are (I am in the country where he is working) and worked online, which meant that we could see each other every 6 months or so (he could still travel to my country, I could not to his). During this whole time, we talked, zoomed etc. regularly., but basically he has overall been unclear about what he wanted (saying that he wants a committed relationship but that he had commitment issues etc., not wanting to be exclusive) which - I know - told me to run away - but since we were stuck in a pandemic and both having a hard time, I thought 1) that I should just remain open and see what happens in these trying times; 2) that uncertainty/non-clarity/commitment-issues were maybe exacerbated by the rather unclear circumstances we were in. We were for sure providing support for each other this whole time. We do also have great rapport, good sexual chemistry, we find each other interesting and intellectually stimulating, we respect each other and overall actually get along pretty well. He was also actually very much into me when we first met. And when he visited and stayed with me it was really good. I did really like him and wanted more in terms of a relationship. Well, I actually come to love him, strongly. He did, however, definitely acted rather inconsistently, and did not put much effort into it.

So what happened was when he visited me again in mid-march, he decided before he left that he couldn’t pursue this (for multiple reasons). We parted ways in an amicable manner even though I was extremely heart-broken and I stopped talking to him in order to heal a bit, especially since he acted rather haphazardly after our breakup (not going to get into detail, but rather bizarre and uncaring). We reconnected in late August, have been talking regularly, and even though I wished that maybe he would reconsider his decision, there was no sign of that. He did contact me before he came to visit (in November) and told me he was now in a committed relationship with someone and insists that we should be friends.

Now, basically, I don't know what to do with him. I am in no way over him, I thought about him regularly in all those months since our parting and seeing him just made me realize even more how much I liked him and how much I miss him. He is, on the other hand, in a totally different place and definitely does not feel the same way about me, even though he claims he missed me a lot and cares about me, too. I don't like cutting people off, and actually believe people can be friends with past lovers, but at the same time, I do feel resentment as he did not put much effort into a relationship when he was seeing me, which to me feels like a lost chance – something I am grieving, and now he is ready to give that effort to someone else and I also feel jealous. He did say that he didn't feel like he was ready for a relationship then, and that he has worked on himself and feels like that now. Yet this triggers me a lot (because of my past and my insecurities). He is, however, someone I would greatly enjoy as a friend, I just am not sure if I can do it or if I should try.

 

[diamant]

Hi @Juniperist ,

Sorry to hear you're going through such heart-ache, it's a horrible feeling.

What should I do with X now?
32.4.6 > 18
32.4 is clear, there's no 'game' between you anymore. 32.6 shows someone who is constantly stressed and on edge, which brings misfortune. Resulting 18 is something rotten - it's also 'madness', and being unhealthily obsessed. Since you still love him, there's no way you can be friends at this stage. You would keep hoping for something which just isn't there, your heart-ache would be prolonged.

Shall I try to be friends with X?
59.5. > 4
In short, no. Every time I got this combination, I was dealing with people who were bullshitting me. I had a look here on the forum too, and there definitely seems to be an unfortunate vibe about this cast. For example, someone was asking what is the future of my relationship with my girlfriend (they broke up and she married someone else). Someone else was asking show me the way to progress our relationship (the querent ended it shortly after because the man didn't want a real relationship with her). And a third one was asking about his strategy of keeping distance from his love interest (sadly it also went nowhere).

I personally wouldn't want someone with uncaring and inconsistent behaviour as a friend, but you're you. How about you first wait till you don't fancy him at all anymore, and only then be friends? That would be fair on both of you, and you would then be able to be real friends (friends means friends, without any fancying going on).

 

[Juniperist]

Dear diamant
Thank you for your response - it is very useful. And I do understand your reading of the first one, but I have hard time understanding 59.5. to 4. I see how it has been unfortunate for others, but I cant see that when I try to read the line (I find the various versions confusing).
But I found this thread helpful

59.5

Any consensus on 59.5? Although it does apply to a reading I did the question is not so relevant. I'd like to understand this line as I haven't had it before - hmm, maybe once. 59 came up a lot for me earlier this year too regarding "riding the wave" and not getting wiped out. Also connected to...

www.onlineclarity.co.uk

maybe I should read it in the sense of "letting things fall apart and not taking action, as an active decision" ie not actively doing anything to remain friends for now.

I have to say, though, I find this extremely hard, I have waited for so long (because we were stuck apart in the pandemic when we were seeing each other) to do more and be more with him, that now knowing he is in the same city, it feels so wrong not to see him or spend time with him. And I don't want to exaggerate the nature/amount of his uncaringness, either - that was mostly during a particularly weird time.
But I guess that would be not the best course of action for me.
Could there also be any follow up questions in terms of what might be useful for me in order to think/go through this?

Thanks....

Hi @Juniperist ,

Sorry to hear you're going through such heart-ache, it's a horrible feeling.

What should I do with X now?
32.4.6 > 18
32.4 is clear, there's no 'game' between you anymore. 32.6 shows someone who is constantly stressed and on edge, which brings misfortune. Resulting 18 is something rotten - it's also 'madness', and being unhealthily obsessed. Since you still love him, there's no way you can be friends at this stage. You would keep hoping for something which just isn't there, your heart-ache would be prolonged.

Shall I try to be friends with X?
59.5. > 4
In short, no. Every time I got this combination, I was dealing with people who were bullshitting me. I had a look here on the forum too, and there definitely seems to be an unfortunate vibe about this cast. For example, someone was asking what is the future of my relationship with my girlfriend (they broke up and she married someone else). Someone else was asking show me the way to progress our relationship (the querent ended it shortly after because the man didn't want a real relationship with her). And a third one was asking about his strategy of keeping distance from his love interest (sadly it also went nowhere).

I personally wouldn't want someone with uncaring and inconsistent behaviour as a friend, but you're you. How about you first wait till you don't fancy him at all anymore, and only then be friends? That would be fair on both of you, and you would then be able to be real friends (friends means friends, without any fancying going on).

 

[Matali]

Hello,
32.4.6 – 18 and 59.5 – 4 : What comes out of your lines is a repair and stability advice to go in the true direction of your heart, your life, your center.

32 is a beautiful hexagram that speaks of stability, of finding its direction in life, of strengthening the bases and the heart. I often advise doing yoga because it is a very complete spiritual practice for mind and body

This man was not the right person (line 4) but you always think of him and he offers you his friendship. It's up to you to see if you can turn the page while seeing him as a friend... It can be a time to understand that you need to find a man who really suits you. And find the right moment to let go...

Hexagram 59 is like a dissolution of problems by a certain sweetness but also separation : I see line 5 as a possibility to review him but only as a friend - a kind of timing... And most importantly, see your other friends

 

[diamant]

I have hard time understanding 59.5. to 4. I see how it has been unfortunate for others, but I cant see that when I try to read the line (I find the various versions confusing).

Yes, I can see how 59.5 > 4 can be confusing. In this case, it was experience which alerted me to its unpleasant meaning.

59.5
scatter sweat - someone gets hot under the collar, very agitated.
his great/many/venerated announcements - I think this is where 'bullshit' comes in.
scatter the king's dwelling - 'king'? someone here thinks they're royalty.
no fault - well, if you're a king, you can never be wrong, can you...

4
The character for 4 (蒙) can mean: covered by a parasitic plant, deceive, cheat, ignorant, folly.

 

[dfreed]

What should I do with X now?
Answer: 32.4.6. to 18

As someone else said - and as line 32.4 says, 'In (this particular) hunt there is no game'.

With hex. 32 you have trigram (3-line figures) Wind below, which I think of as representing you: you want to be gentle - and perhaps desire some sort of long-term, 'win-win' outcome. But with the upper trigram Thunder's two moving lines, you are being pulled in different directions, perhaps by conflicting emotions and needs.

Consistent with the text, I think the advice here is to end this pursuit - to stop, as you find with 18's upper trigram, Mountain.

One suggested course of action would be to say to this person that you need to not be 'friends'. For now, you need to 'be like a mountain' - and stand on your own so you can sort things out - your feelings, hurt, etc.

One title/name for Hex. 18 that is appropriate here is 'detoxifying' - you need to clear out the 'bad, stale air' (18's lower trigram, wind), before you move on to the next relationship. If your ex. is truly a good friend, I'd expect they'd understand this.

Best, D.

 

[Trojina]

I seem to come here every few years for a relationship question, I guess, because these questions seem to be so emotionally charged and I need others to pitch in and help me. My question was about a lover who after breaking up with me wants to remain friends (so mundane, right?). I am not sure if I can, or if I should, as I still have feelings for him and I feel heart-broken, even though I would like him as a friend as well, but I don't know whether this because I feel so sad about not having him in my life. I provided the whole story below for background, because this was not a relationship among equals (ie. I was invested more in it).

Question: What should I do with X now?
Answer: 32.4.6. to 18

You have 32, ongoing situation and 18 deterioration or rather fixing what is spoiled.

It looks like a picture of trying to mend something that's relentlessly going downhill. There's a great deal of agitation in line 6, attempts to remake situations that are exhausting


My experience of 32.4 is actually the opposite of what it says in all the books. It says 'no game' but I've had game in abundance with this line so it may well be more to do with the field of where you seek game. I mean there may be lots of game about but not in the specific small area you are looking for it.


Overall this looks very tiring and the advice in line 6 is to relax and be with what is. If X has rejected you X must respect you need time and space to recover. X cannot have it both ways, reject you, hurt you and then expect you to make him feel less guilt about that by still being 'friends'. X is ripping you off and I say that not from the reading but from what you say.

The reading I think is asking why you keep flogging a dead horse. Are you an over giver? Are you someone who hates to say no and who hates to hurt or reject others? If so he's taking advantage of that.

I will get the lines from wiki



'In the fields, no game.'

'Rousing perseverance, pitfall.'



It's a pretty clear answer isn't it. Stop persevering against decay. He decided to lose you and so the consequence is he must now deal with the fact he lost you. Sorry but it's tough and he will have to deal with that as you did. Also 18 indicates rottenness and suggests to me his behaviour is rotten/immoral/decayed or rather that is the kind of situation you are trying to endlessly persevere in.

So the background story: This person and I have been in a not so clear-type of relationship during the pandemic. We started dating around 2 months before the pandemic, but when the pandemic happened he chose to stay in the country where his kids are (I am in the country where he is working) and worked online, which meant that we could see each other every 6 months or so (he could still travel to my country, I could not to his). During this whole time, we talked, zoomed etc. regularly., but basically he has overall been unclear about what he wanted (saying that he wants a committed relationship but that he had commitment issues etc., not wanting to be exclusive) which - I know - told me to run away - but since we were stuck in a pandemic and both having a hard time, I thought 1) that I should just remain open and see what happens in these trying times; 2) that uncertainty/non-clarity/commitment-issues were maybe exacerbated by the rather unclear circumstances we were in. We were for sure providing support for each other this whole time. We do also have great rapport, good sexual chemistry, we find each other interesting and intellectually stimulating, we respect each other and overall actually get along pretty well. He was also actually very much into me when we first met. And when he visited and stayed with me it was really good. I did really like him and wanted more in terms of a relationship. Well, I actually come to love him, strongly. He did, however, definitely acted rather inconsistently, and did not put much effort into it.

Hmm bit of a time waster then.

So what happened was when he visited me again in mid-march, he decided before he left that he couldn’t pursue this (for multiple reasons). We parted ways in an amicable manner even though I was extremely heart-broken and I stopped talking to him in order to heal a bit, especially since he acted rather haphazardly after our breakup (not going to get into detail, but rather bizarre and uncaring). We reconnected in late August, have been talking regularly, and even though I wished that maybe he would reconsider his decision, there was no sign of that. He did contact me before he came to visit (in November) and told me he was now in a committed relationship with someone and insists that we should be friends.

Oh well he can't insist on you being friends.

Thinking I maybe did not specify my question enough, I also asked: Shall I try to be friends with X?
Answer: 59.5. to 4

Generally 59.5 describes times of crisis, where all usual laws and landmarks have vanished. The king opens his granaries for all to use. It's generally advice to give all you've got, to not hold anything in reserve in a time of loss. It reminds me of pandemic times when the uk government started handing out money all over the place to the extent one would think we had a socialist government. But it was a crisis, the stores are therefore emptied to sustain the people.

It's more of a mystery as to how to apply this to your situation. This is an expansive and 'what the hell' kind of line, throwing it all open. I think perhaps what you could do is present a 'yeah whatever you want' kind of front, not sure. Generally I'd see it as advice to just give out but that does clash with your first answer. You could say 'yeah whatever we can be friends' but never contact him. So you're effectively opening up your granaries so he can come to you but that doesn't mean you ever need to reciprocate.


I think in your shoes I might do that. I could also take this line as advice to very openly share everything you feel no holds barred. There's no reserves left in this line, it's all out there. You could be being advised not to play it cool, not to hide feelings but to say 'NO you hurt me badly go away!'


'Dispersing sweat, his great proclamation.
Dispersing the king's residence. (/ granaries)
No mistake.'


Sweat indicates intense emotion or activity and release of all that is held within. Release what is held within you. Don't be careful, don't be cautious just put it out there.


What kind of prat courts you, tells you he has commitment issues (anyone's answer to that should always be 'fcuk off then') then commits to another woman then want to be friends! Get real, does he think you are human or a cardboard cut out! Show him how real you are, sweat tears and all!

 

[marybluesky]

Hello,

sorry that you're going through this.

32.4.6> 18 says you can't find what you want in this situation, that you continue to remain hesitant & unsatisfied. 18 is clear: Being rotten.

Once I received this cast for a work I didn't find satisfactory but didn't leave either, fearing that I couldn't do any better (the thread exists in this forum). I stayed however for two more years, just to realize later how much of my precious time I wasted while I could do much better.

As for 59.5>4, I read it as being loud & clear about how you fill & what you want (great proclamation) regardless of consequences (4). If you are suffering don't play the role of that happy-go-lucky friend.

 

[rosada]

I see 4. Youthful Folly as advising approaching the whole idea of being in a "friendship" relationship with this person as being totally new territory. In other words, any fantasies of reactivating the former boyfriend/girlfriend relationship you had with him would have to be totally dispersed - 59.5 - so just what would being friends actually look like?

 

[rosada]

Further thoughts..
The Image for hexagram 4 states that the superior man is "thorough in all that he does" (Wilhelm). Maybe emphasizing the importance of really, really Dispersing your past way of relating to this fellow which of course implies that you haven't completed that step yet.
Maybe that's what 32.4.6 - 18 was all about - the need to rewrite your former assumption of how this relationship would be.

 

[Juniperist]

Thank you everyone. There is a lot to consider here for me.
Rosada's and diamant's interpretations of 59.5 are very different from each other; I need to consider them again. I frankly dont know if he is bullshitting me - he was in a worse place before, and maybe he did really not have the capacity to give more then. He does seem to be in a much better place now, his life is much more together, and maybe ready to commit to this new person.
I also do think he has given me time - it has been months since we separated. It is me who cant forget about him and is obsessing about him. And 32.6 resonates - I exhausted myself thinking about him and wondering about him and wishing things about him. I am beating a dead horse in my mind.
I don't however know how to forget or how to turn a new page with him.

@trojina you ask
"The reading I think is asking why you keep flogging a dead horse. Are you an over giver? Are you someone who hates to say no and who hates to hurt or reject others? If so he's taking advantage of that."

I have no problem saying no people in general. But I have very hard time saying no to people I love - and yes, I think he might have used that during our relationship. More importantly, however, I am forever afraid of being unfair to people. Like in this case I am not sure if I am being unfair to him... I did tell him how I felt though - I did not play the happy-go-lucky person.

 

[Juniperist]

@marybluesky
I think I also felt like I couldnt do any better. He has many qualities that I admire, I also find him attractive (the only problem is that he is not into me anymore )

Once I received this cast for a work I didn't find satisfactory but didn't leave either, fearing that I couldn't do any better (the thread exists in this forum). I stayed however for two more years, just to realize later how much of my precious time I wasted while I could do much better.

As for 59.5>4, I read it as being loud & clear about how you fill & what you want (great proclamation) regardless of consequences (4). If you are suffering don't play the role of that happy-go-lucky friend.

 

[redoleander]

Question: What should I do with X now?
Answer: 32.4.6. to 18

Not much of anything it seems. You can't get what you want in this situation and I think it would be emotionally destabilizing. Sounds like nothing intentionally terrible, just nothing that can materialize into much for you which I imagine would be disappointing since all relationships take effort. 32.4 implies looking for something in the wrong spot (getting your needs met in a place where they can't be, most likely) and 32.6 saying the situation, your heart, you, him, something is too unsteady to fare well in this circumstance.

Thinking I maybe did not specify my question enough, I also asked: Shall I try to be friends with X?
Answer: 59.5. to 4

I think this says you need to let it totally fall apart, give it all away, empty the whole house of this and then, who knows, maybe someday you'd be friends or maybe not. The floods need to come first and sweep the land of this situation and that could take a while, too, since you have strong feelings for him. Hidden line in your first query is 46.6 which has a somewhat different but possibly related theme; needing to go into the unknown, without expectation, for a little while. To just feel your way through the breakup period. This type of period is always temporary, of course.

It's never easy to have to separate from someone you care about and I'm sorry it didn't work out. I'm sure there are more people out there and keeping this person close by might block the view of what else is available to you (once you want to date again.)

 

[Juniperist]

Dear all
Thanks for your replies.

Just to give you some kind of update - I did meet with X, to see how I will feel, now that I know that there isnt/and wont be anything romantic between us, to see if I can go into it without expectation, to feel my way as @redoleander said in a way, to see if I can start a new chapter, if I can start to let the stale air out as @dfreed said, to see how a friendship could be as a new territory (@rosada). I also wanted to have nothing left unsaid.
This felt more necessary, because I just learned (from him) before I met him that he lost his job in my country. It will take awhile for him to leave (it is an academic job so you finish the semester, and in this case it might even be also the next semester, it is not sure) but it does feel like a chapter of his life is ending as well, though in his case, of course, he has good things going on for him in the other country. We did have good time, talked a lot but I am not over feeling grief about everything that has transpired. Moreover, while our interaction did give me the sense that we can actually be friends, the fact that he will not be regularly coming to my country made me doubt if we can establish something like that.

I dont know whether it is appropriate to post it here or whether I should start a new thread, but I did ask after we met:
What will happen to me and X and got 25.1 to 12.
Now I am trying to interpret that and your comments are most welcome, I would love to hear them.


I do feel like this should be my last reading about him, giving that there seems nothing else I could ask and given the fact that there is some sense of finality with him now cutting his ties to my city/country. I feel like there is the danger that I might be using the readings just as an obssessive way to think about him.

Thanks again and best wishes
J

 

[redoleander]

25.1 > 12 This could mean that the block (the block is the fact that this relationship is an impossibility, the breakup, his moving, and so forth) frees you (both of you, really) to go forward innocently and find out what’s next. Sounds innocent and straightforward. Keep going in the direction you already are, toward disentangling.