...life can be translucent

Menu

Will the United Kingdom stay in the European Union or vote "out" on June 23? 39uc.

rosada

visitor
Clarity Supporter
Joined
Jun 3, 2006
Messages
8,940
Reaction score
2,042
Will the United Kingdom stay in the European Union or vote "out" on June 23? 39uc.

Will the United Kingdom stay in the European Union or vote "out" on June 23?
39uc.

39.Limping seems to refer to the hardships of going on alone but would that indicate England does opt out and goes on alone or that because of the difficulties of going alone England votes to stay in the EU? Or does 39 suggest other ideas entirely?
 

juaneros

visitor
Joined
Jan 26, 2012
Messages
147
Reaction score
5
Hi Rosada. Because it's a yes/no question I would say that it stays the way it is. Something prevents it to change, I guess to vote out. Also the last line of hex. 39 says 'continuance brings good fortune', probably meaning that the voters see that continuing the way it is is benefiting it more, which I'm not sure it is or it isn't.
 

Trojina

Moderator
Clarity Supporter
Joined
May 29, 2006
Messages
23,779
Reaction score
2,668
It isn't a 'yes/no' question exactly, it's a multi option question

She isn't asking 'will they leave ?' or 'will they stay ?' that would be a yes/no question.
 

juaneros

visitor
Joined
Jan 26, 2012
Messages
147
Reaction score
5
It isn't a 'yes/no' question exactly, it's a multi option question

She isn't asking 'will they leave ?' or 'will they stay ?' that would be a yes/no question.

True :D That 'or' makes it more of an option, hehe. Well, still hold with the answer I gave though, the next hex. that follows is 40, liberation... if it would have received that then I would think otherwise. We will see shortly I guess.
 
M

mirian

Guest
True :D That 'or' makes it more of an option, hehe. Well, still hold with the answer I gave though, the next hex. that follows is 40, liberation... if it would have received that then I would think otherwise. We will see shortly I guess.

Personally, I wouldn't even attempt to interpret this reading because we don't know exactly which option the Yi is actually addressing. That's my view, anyway.
 

Tim K

visitor
Joined
Nov 29, 2013
Messages
1,327
Reaction score
50
Did my own cast,
How will the situation go with UK and EU, show me the result of the referendum ? 8.4 → 45
Legge:
We see its subject seeking for union with the one beyond himself. With firm correctness there will be good fortune.


Stays within EU, people recognize that cooperation is in their best interests.

39 also prevents the advance, leaving the union that is, and from my previous casts the answer is the same: stays in EU
 

Trojina

Moderator
Clarity Supporter
Joined
May 29, 2006
Messages
23,779
Reaction score
2,668
True :D That 'or' makes it more of an option, hehe. Well, still hold with the answer I gave though, the next hex. that follows is 40, liberation... if it would have received that then I would think otherwise. We will see shortly I guess.

Ha ha I'm a sort of undecided and as a UK resident I will get to vote so I decided to ask Yi "what is the correct way for me to vote ?" I got 40.2.5.6>12.

I make questions about me not 'out there' generally so I decided to put me in. I don't know what to make of that other than 'make your mind up' (40) and of course my vote is not a deciding factor and I feel somewhat out of touch/alienated from the arguments (12) so I only have who I perceive as having the most reputable opinions to go on and as it stands the Brexits aren't appearing too reputable.

Also it depends on a person's own POV as to whether leaving is liberating or not. There is no objective position to be asking from. 39uc could mean either depending on your POV. It could mean limping on in the EU or it could mean limping on alone.
 

Tohpol

Supporter
Clarity Supporter
Joined
Jan 25, 2007
Messages
3,566
Reaction score
91
Did my own cast,
How will the situation go with UK and EU, show me the result of the referendum ? 8.4 → 45
Legge:
We see its subject seeking for union with the one beyond himself. With firm correctness there will be good fortune.


Stays within EU, people recognize that cooperation is in their best interests.

39 also prevents the advance, leaving the union that is, and from my previous casts the answer is the same: stays in EU

Yes, all the casts seem to point toward the UK staying in the EU, unsurprisingly. But I think whether or not this is a good thing, and for whom, is an entirely different set of questions.
 

Sixth Relative

visitor
Joined
Feb 28, 2016
Messages
341
Reaction score
13
One recurrent duality in 39's lines is the one between going/coming. Going (leaving EU) is halted while Coming (Staying with allies and friends) is fortunated.
 

rosada

visitor
Clarity Supporter
Joined
Jun 3, 2006
Messages
8,940
Reaction score
2,042
Re-reading my question I realized that I (of all people!) had asked a - sort of - yes or no question, rephrased it and asked, "How will England vote re staying in the EU?" and I got 31.3.4 - 8 which I interpret to mean they will vote to stay.

Interesting that it's been so hard to get a clear reading. Over on an astrology site there were the responses from a wide survey they'd taken of well known readers. Many commented how the charts were unusually obscure, almost as if God himself hadn't made up His mind yet.
 
Last edited:

Tim K

visitor
Joined
Nov 29, 2013
Messages
1,327
Reaction score
50
Super clear answer you've got Rosada :)

31 - 8.png

All three hexes that are named together :)
 
M

mirian

Guest
Re-reading my question I realized that I (of all people!) had asked a - sort of - yes or no question, rephrased it and asked, "Will England vote to stay in the EU?" and I got 31.3.4 - 8 which I interpret to mean they will vote to stay.

Interesting that it's been so hard to get a clear reading. Over on an astrology site there were the responses from a wide survey they'd taken of well known readers. Many commented how the charts were unusually obscure, almost as if God himself hadn't made up His mind yet.

Rosada, it's being an interesting exercise because every single reading so far (including the other thread) gives the result as the UK remaining in the EU.

Personally, I'm very sceptical about the referendum as a fair process as voters are not having the facts right to make an informed decision. Also, as Topal said, who is actually going to benefit is a different discussion altogether. But I will not bore anyone with the gory details of EU politics!

I've decided to do a last reading the day before the referendum (and maybe one after the closing of polling stations) and test my interpretation skills :D
 

rosada

visitor
Clarity Supporter
Joined
Jun 3, 2006
Messages
8,940
Reaction score
2,042
With all the various questions we've asked we're going to have a wealth of insights into the meaning of the hexagrams once the results are in!
 

rosada

visitor
Clarity Supporter
Joined
Jun 3, 2006
Messages
8,940
Reaction score
2,042
Looking at the answer Trojina got asking which way she should vote. 40.Liberation leading to 12.Stagnation sounds to me like leaving the EU would not benefit England. It will be interesting to know what you decide, T, and also if you have any odd experience around your actual voting - like if it turns out to be hard to get to the polls that day? Like does it turn out to be hard to Liberate yourself from whatever you are doing to get there?
 

Tohpol

Supporter
Clarity Supporter
Joined
Jan 25, 2007
Messages
3,566
Reaction score
91
Not sure what this video has to do with Brexit...This was specifically about the resistance to leaving the European Convention on Human Rights only, not our present issue with the economic framework of the European Union as a whole.
 
M

mirian

Guest
The impact on ordinary British people (like me ;) ) if Britain vote:

Remain - Hex 21

Leave - Hex 13.5 > 30
 

Tohpol

Supporter
Clarity Supporter
Joined
Jan 25, 2007
Messages
3,566
Reaction score
91
The impact on ordinary British people (like me ;) ) if Britain vote:

Remain - Hex 21

Leave - Hex 13.5 > 30

21 = "Punishment" and "Penalty" through further economic con jobs (austerity measures) squeezing the public? Determination needed to get through it?

13.5>30

I think I'll quote Hilary's wonderful Wikiwing here as it is unbelievably appropriate interpretation:

'People in harmony first cry out and weep, then afterwards they laugh.
Great leaders direct their coming together.'


This can predict a reunion and peace-making after tragedy/ defeat and against all odds. It calls for visionary leadership.

13 zhi Hexagram 30, the Clarity of People in Harmony. A moment of clear, transformative mutual vision. The people see one another and laugh in recognition.


-----------------

So, if we left, the situation would undoubtedly be difficult for a few years and there would be dissent and discord but eventually a much healthier autonomy and independence away from economic Eurocracy would bring people together in ways hard to imagine if we had stayed. The vast majority of European peoples want to control their own nations socio-economic destinies but be fully integrated in the big issues like human rights.

I don't think such a future is on the cards via this referendum but I think it will be deemed necessary to leave anyway in the next 2-3 years for a variety of different but connected reasons.
 

Sixth Relative

visitor
Joined
Feb 28, 2016
Messages
341
Reaction score
13
Not sure what this video has to do with Brexit...This was specifically about the resistance to leaving the European Convention on Human Rights only, not our present issue with the economic framework of the European Union as a whole.

Hi Topal. So, you haven't noticed the same attitude and rethoric in some defenders of both cases, leaving the ECHR and leaving the EU. Shocking ;)
 

Sixth Relative

visitor
Joined
Feb 28, 2016
Messages
341
Reaction score
13
21 = "Punishment" and "Penalty" through further economic con jobs (austerity measures) squeezing the public? Determination needed to get through it?
This is one one to read it, from a text-based interpretation; an alternative one is "voting to remain would remove the obstacle to union".

13.5>30

I think I'll quote Hilary's wonderful Wikiwing here as it is unbelievably appropriate interpretation:

'People in harmony first cry out and weep, then afterwards they laugh.
Great leaders direct their coming together.'


This can predict a reunion and peace-making after tragedy/ defeat and against all odds. It calls for visionary leadership.

13 zhi Hexagram 30, the Clarity of People in Harmony. A moment of clear, transformative mutual vision. The people see one another and laugh in recognition.


-----------------

So, if we left, the situation would undoubtedly be difficult for a few years and there would be dissent and discord but eventually a much healthier autonomy and independence away from economic Eurocracy would bring people together in ways hard to imagine if we had stayed. The vast majority of European peoples want to control their own nations socio-economic destinies but be fully integrated in the big issues like human rights.

I don't think such a future is on the cards via this referendum but I think it will be deemed necessary to leave anyway in the next 2-3 years for a variety of different but connected reasons.

Again, that is a possible way to read it from a text-based interpretation; an alternative is that people won't vote that option, and UK's leadership is doing good in changing people's mind from crying against EU to remain in EU

Now, from a Wen Wang Gua perspective, hex 21 is good for the people, while 13zhi30 is problematic for the people:

Hex 21: The people is represented by Subject line. In hex 21 it is Wei (earth) which is strong and healthy during the current month of Wu (fire). Without change, no bad sign or negative impact is upon the people. If the question was made on June 14th, there is an improvement in governability and partisan division would be reduced.

13zhi30: The people is represented by the Subject line. In hex 13 it is Hai (water) which is in stage of imprisonmet during the current Month of Wu (fire); the active line is Shen (metal) with the relative Asset attached; it moves to ptoduce the subject line, meaning that leaving would have a positive economic impact on the people; hex 30 (the effects of change) is a total confllict hexagram, wich is a bad sign. So, regardless of some economic positive impacts, leaving the EU would have a negative impact as a whole.

We'll see how this evolve.
 

Tohpol

Supporter
Clarity Supporter
Joined
Jan 25, 2007
Messages
3,566
Reaction score
91
Hi Topal. So, you haven't noticed the same attitude and rethoric in some defenders of both cases, leaving the ECHR and leaving the EU. Shocking ;)

Sure, dogma and ignorance can be prevalent in both camps. I wouldn't disagree there. But leaving the ECHR and leaving the EU really are entirely separate issues and it just muddies the waters to think they are somehow connected.
 

Tohpol

Supporter
Clarity Supporter
Joined
Jan 25, 2007
Messages
3,566
Reaction score
91
This is one one to read it, from a text-based interpretation; an alternative one is "voting to remain would remove the obstacle to union".

I have no knowledge of Wen Wang Gua I'm afraid and the interpretations don't appear to have any relevance at all to what I know about the hexagrams. Thus, the same could be said for your explanations. But who knows? The system might be more accurate. But I can't really comment.
 

Sixth Relative

visitor
Joined
Feb 28, 2016
Messages
341
Reaction score
13
I have no knowledge of Wen Wang Gua I'm afraid and the interpretations don't appear to have any relevance at all to what I know about the hexagrams.
Hi

Just for clarification. That alternative reading on hex 21 as "voting to remain would remove the obstacle to union" was not based on Wen Wang Gua, but on the text-based method. In Yijing's text, there are different indications to link hex 21 with a decisive action to remove obstacles to union.

Of course, I don't claim to have the only right interpretation. I recognize yours as a valid interpretation. The Yijing's text allows both options, depending on what phrase one chose to focus on and one's own preferences on the matter. That's the strenght and the weakness of the text-based method :)

Best wishes
 

Tohpol

Supporter
Clarity Supporter
Joined
Jan 25, 2007
Messages
3,566
Reaction score
91
Hi
Just for clarification. That alternative reading on hex 21 as "voting to remain would remove the obstacle to union" was not based on Wen Wang Gua, but on the text-based method. In Yijing's text, there are different indications to link hex 21 with a decisive action to remove obstacles to union.

Yes, I understood what you were saying SR. My apologies for highlighting your alternative interpretation which I have no problem with as I think it merely augments my own. My reply was referring to your Wen Wang Gua analysis which, after all, made up the bulk of your post.

So, regarding your "alternative" reading from the traditional text: "voting to remain would remove the obstacle to union". It seems to me that this interpretation is simply a reiteration of the obvious i.e. removing the obstacle means staying in the European Union. Self-evident. Therefore, the "impact" for the British people would be more of the current situation. And here the point of discussion becomes whether or not that would mean more restrictions and difficulties or more freedom...which brings me back to my original interpretation.
 
M

mirian

Guest
21 = "Punishment" and "Penalty" through further economic con jobs (austerity measures) squeezing the public? Determination needed to get through it?

13.5>30

I think I'll quote Hilary's wonderful Wikiwing here as it is unbelievably appropriate interpretation:

'People in harmony first cry out and weep, then afterwards they laugh.
Great leaders direct their coming together.'


This can predict a reunion and peace-making after tragedy/ defeat and against all odds. It calls for visionary leadership.

13 zhi Hexagram 30, the Clarity of People in Harmony. A moment of clear, transformative mutual vision. The people see one another and laugh in recognition.


-----------------

So, if we left, the situation would undoubtedly be difficult for a few years and there would be dissent and discord but eventually a much healthier autonomy and independence away from economic Eurocracy would bring people together in ways hard to imagine if we had stayed. The vast majority of European peoples want to control their own nations socio-economic destinies but be fully integrated in the big issues like human rights.

I don't think such a future is on the cards via this referendum but I think it will be deemed necessary to leave anyway in the next 2-3 years for a variety of different but connected reasons.

Totally agree on 13.5. Just to add about Hex 21 (if Britain vote to Remain) there is the element of bitting hard to get to the truth. So that could be saying that after remaining people would push to get the truth about what the EU actually stands for and where it is heading to (one of the big questions in the debate).
 

Yasmin

visitor
Joined
Jan 7, 2013
Messages
269
Reaction score
88
Oops, I started another thread but would be better off contributing to this one. A week to go for the Brexit vote, the polls are neck to neck and the financial markets are going crazy. The outcome of the vote is really unpredictable. I asked: outlook for the Brexit vote? Interesting that I also got 39, obstacles :
39.1.3.5>24

39 obstacles > 24 return, turning back.

39: obstacles, impasse, halting, limping "sit tight, don't move"
Judgment: Hua-Ching Ni: The good direction is where there is no abyss or high mountains, like the Southwest, but not the Northeast. One should go to the great leader who can work with people in breaking through obstructions.

Commentary Legge: Impasse is the symbol of incompetency in the feet and legs involving difficulty in walking. Hence it represents a state of the kingdom which makes government an arduous task. The figure teaches how to perform this task under the prevailing circumstances.

39.1 Going meets with obstruction, staying stationary brings praise. The proper course is to wait.
39.3 going leads to difficulties. He remains stationary and returns to former associates.
39.5 the king meets the obstruction head on in an emergency, he attracts able helpers.

24 Return

To me this casting suggests that the the timing of the referendum is premature and making the management of the kingdom very difficult. That the PM will gather able helpers in campaigning to stay in, and the vote will be in favour of the U.K. remaining in EU. It's return will be welcome by EU partners. That said, it does not rule out UK exiting EU at a later date, with a better plan.
 

Yasmin

visitor
Joined
Jan 7, 2013
Messages
269
Reaction score
88
A deputy was just murdered while campaigning to stay in, allegedly by a Brexiteer, and campaigning has now been suspended... It occurs to me that an alternative interpretation of the casting 39.1.3.5>24 could be that the referendum gets cancelled or postponed at the last minute?

My question was "outlook for the Brexit vote? ". The casting could be saying: 39 obstacles, halting the referendum > 24 returning to status quo, at least for a time.

Either way, I think this cast still suggests status quo rather than Brexiting.
 
M

mirian

Guest
Hi Yasmin,

Just to clarify the news: the MP who was murdered was not campaigning, she was working in her local constituency (as MPs usually do). The man accused of murdering her is not a "brexiteer". He is being described by British media as a "loner" with a history of mental issues. He lives in a former council estate, which in Britain means he is from a low income background. Obviously, investigations continue, and this is tragic and sad, but no one at this point can connect this to the referendum. Campaigning from both sides has been suspended as a matter of respect.
 

Yasmin

visitor
Joined
Jan 7, 2013
Messages
269
Reaction score
88
Thank you Mirian for clarifying the news...It is tragic... Actually I didn't pay close attention to the news. But when I read the sentence "campaigning ahead of Britains EU referendum has been suspended" in a news bulletin, it brought up the alternative interpretation for the cast 39.1.3.5.>24 as "halting the referendum". Just a free association of ideas.
 
Last edited:

Clarity,
Office 17622,
PO Box 6945,
London.
W1A 6US
United Kingdom

Phone/ Voicemail:
+44 (0)20 3287 3053 (UK)
+1 (561) 459-4758 (US).

Top