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Your Experiences with Unchanging Castings-Hexagram 37

Trojina

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Heh heh I searched my journal for instances of 37uc and I found a question about what I was doing in these series of unchanging hexagram threads. It's not one I even remember well. I think I asked when I was ploughing on and there weren't many responses. Think I was asking about what my role was in doing it, keeping on with it, since it's an on going sort of project. I may have thought if no one responded there was no point going on. What I find is that even if no one responds for several months, eventually people do come and give their experiences so I'm glad it has continued.

So how does 37uc describe what I/we do here in these threads ? I tend to think of 37 uc as finding a place to store things in, the home. And when in the home finding the right place for things. Oh yes I'm back to balling socks to put in the sock drawer :p Well I do have Virgo rising. I haven't thought about this answer much until coming to do this thread and I think I can see 37uc on many levels. These threads are something like a filing system , a database which I feel is a 37ish thing. It's obviously also a whole system of thinking we share like a home where values are shared but everyone brings something different. At least if we are here we can assume we are all interested in the I Ching and bring what we bring in experiences and ideas to these threads.


Apart from that example I'd forgotten, I tend often to take 37uc as a sign that all is well or in order...that the socks are balled, in the correct drawers ready for usage. For example a number of times with health questions 37 uc has indicated for me everything is in order, in it's right place. I've found it a reassuring answer. That is I see it as each part of the body, or whichever part you ask about, is doing it's correct job. The liver is being the liver, the kidneys are being the kidneys and so on. Though I have not many recorded examples when I get 37uc I see it as order and cohesiveness applying to anything, systems, machinery, engines, bodies etc etc. If for example I was buying a car and had 37uc on asking "is this car reliable ?", I think I'd trust the car to do it's job. (well I'd have it checked too...but cars have personalities, some are fickle some are steady. The 37uc car is steady IMO)

I tend not to view 37 in a sentimental way. I see it as less about ties of affection and so on and more about systems that work as a unit , cohesively. The family as a unit that functions well. The husband being the husband, the wife being the wife. If everyone fulfils their role the whole house runs smooth and no one loses any socks at all.

On the flip side I can see 37 as the request for conformity from which the teenager (hex 38) wishes to escape. 37uc can be reassuring, at times stifling perhaps ? Not sure about that. Roles are useful but do we always want to be in them ?

It will be interesting to see how 37uc has shown up for people. I'm aware I've missed out the warmth that may be in 37, the human warmth of the home ? That is because I see the family it more as a unit of function in society. Nevertheless ties must be there I suppose. maybe others see that aspect more in their readings ?


Lise summed up the pair 37 and 38 like this :

A people of individuals (every road is unique)

37 - Individual differences are the building stones of a community
38 - Accept and value others as being different

Hilary says of this pair in her book http://www.amazon.com/Ching-Walking-your-creating-future/dp/1848374534

People in the Home forms a pair with hexagram 38, Opposing:

'Opposing means outside. People in the home means inside.'

These two hexagrams describe a single landscape: every inside must have it's outside. Inside you find your fellows, those who share your vision. Outside are the foreigners, who see differently and do not belong in this home.



Finally what does Wing say ?

LI, clarity, in the lower trigram of human affairs brings illumination to the penetrating work of SUN in the upper realm. In it's static form FAMILY implies that you are the possessor of great clarity about your role. You are in fact, dependent upon this role for your sense of power and effectiveness in the world. As long as your behaviour is consonant with this, you will have no difficulties in regard to the object of your inquiry.
(from the 'I Ching Workbook')

I like that Wing brings in the trigrams which I always seem to overlook.


Please throw in any experiences and reflections on 37 unchanging as you have known it :bows:
 

Trojina

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I just got Freeman Crouch's book, 'I Ching: The Chameleon Book' , and I like his title for 37 which is 'Clan Folk'. I like the word 'clan' but that may be because I am a Cancerian :D A clan is so much bigger than what we think of as a family isn't it ?
 

moss elk

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CC trojan, :)

I'd like to thank you for your work on this series of posts.
they have been very helpful to my understanding!

So, many of us have probably experienced sometimes getting literal answers and,
Sometimes metaphorical or "essence" answers.

Here is an example of a literal one...
Someone i know and care about was upset about the dissapearance of a family member.

http://www.myfoxchicago.com/story/24524575/man-missing-after-leaving-nw-side-hospital

Two nights after hearing about it, i asked yi where he was and got 37 unchanging. The Family.
scratched my head, huh? :confused:
i found out the next morning that he had showed up at his familys home. (He had an accident accident after leaving hospital #1 and was taken by ambulance to another hospital)

He was at home with his family when i did the reading.

So, about your doings with these threads...
i see it as you doing benificial things, that nurture us members of your yi family.

Thanks again.
 

Trojina

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Thanks Moss Elk. :) That's a great example of 37 uc as literal. Think I have seen it that way too when asking where someone was...but it's so long ago I forgot details.
 

Liselle

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This is an interesting 37uc thread, about a relationship.

(Edited to add: There is a link in the above sentence, to another thread - was not just babbling inanely...)
 
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hilary

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You're home-making, Trojan :) .

I have one 37 unchanging in my journal, and it fits with your idea of 'all parts of the whole working together'. It's about brainwave entrainment, which I thought might help me with concentration and focus. I'd already asked about a particular product that was being aggressively sold and got a very rude answer about buying it, but thought I would also ask about entrainment in general - using software I already owned - 'What could it do for me?'

Answer 37 unchanging. In practice, used occasionally, it does help me quite reliably and straightforwardly with focus. Things just come together and work in a natural, unremarkable sort of way. If there is a '…?' in the unchangingness of this answer, it would be the question of what I choose to focus on.
 

Liselle

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Just this morning:

Question: Where are my car keys and envelope?
Answer: 37uc
Outcome: Keys and envelope had fallen inside my washing machine.

Could someone please explain that to me? :confused: :rofl: I mean, is there anything directional about the trigrams, or...something?

Background: Had left my apartment to do errands, one of which involved mailing this envelope. Halfway down the stairs, I remembered my intention to take the trash out with me. Went back upstairs, got the trash together, was ready to leave again...and couldn't find my keys and envelope. Looked around, looked around, tried to retrace steps, checked coat pockets, checked pants pockets, looked inside refrigerator :)rofl: - but had gone in it to get remainder of stale bread loaf for trash) - nothing anywhere.

[Edited to add: In case someone reasonably wonders why I would have put car keys anywhere near the washing machine - it's an apartment. The washer and dryer are in a "laundry closet," or niche, in the hallway which is right off the entryway (vs. being in the basement or a separate laundry room). I had to go down that hallway to get part of the trash, and apparently that's the direction I went when I came back upstairs.]

[Continuing...] Began to feel insane. Consulted I Ching, got 37uc. Remembered what I'd learned in this thread about things in their proper places. Checked to see if I'd hung keys on their usual hook - no. Looked in cupboard where box of envelopes is kept, on countertop where I'd addressed the envelope, etc. (not that those places made any logical sense, since envelope was ready to mail, but whatever) - nothing. Looked inside pocketbook - nope. Unchanging...could it mean NOT in the home? Opened front door, looked on floor in hallway, checked lock in case the keys were still in it - no.

Asked again: "Where are they???" 15.6 > 52

"Calling out"? No, Yi, my keys are not a cell phone; there is no way to somehow signal them and make them beep. Looked near the actual telephone, on the sofa and so forth - nothing. Maybe 15.6 is just telling me not to freak out, and look around in a calm, methodical way? Well, fine, but I'd exhausted every reasonable place to look! But, went around the apartment again. Nothing.

Third reading: "WHERE ARE KEYS AND ENVELOPE???" 21.1.2 > 64

Biting through, chewing, gnawing? My only thought there was that I'd absentmindedly dropped the keys and envelope into the trash bag before tying it up nice and tight, and now I'd have to cut it open with scissors and dig through it? :(

Fortunately, before I went down that rabbit hole, I walked past my washing machine (again) and for some unknown reason looked in it, and there they were. (The washer lid was open because I'd used it earlier, and was using the upright lid to air dry a couple of things.)

37uc was the first reading here, so how was it giving me relevant information? The washer is a "household" (hex 37) appliance; I'll concede that much. But...so what?

I think someone said in these threads that nuclear hexagrams can be important in unchanging readings, and I do notice that 64 (the relating hexagram of the third reading) is the nuclear hexagram of 37. But does that actually help?

It's not difficult to notice that Yi passed up the following options, in favor of 37uc: 48 (the Well), 29 (machine is a Whirlpool brand; Yi was perfectly happy to give me 29uc to indicate this model when I was shopping for it[SUP]*[/SUP]), 11 (items had "flowed" or fallen down), maybe even 4.3 ("strong man" [machine] "made of metal"). There are probably others.

Any ideas? :confused:



[SUP]*[/sup]will post in 29uc thread, along with another 29uc reading that still needs some time to resolve
 
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Trojina

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Trouble is I generally find lost items answers completely meaningless so can't help with this I'm afraid.
 

Liselle

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Trojan, would you like me to make that post a thread of its own, and maybe link it to this thread? Instead of taking up space here?

(I guess the next logical question would be WHY lost item answers are meaningless...I mean, why should they be any different from anything else, really. I've gotten perfectly helpful answers to other mundane everyday questions. But that's a different topic, too. Any interest in a thread about lost item questions, using this as one example? Particularly in hex 37 would be nice to have proper thread housekeeping, right?)
 

Trojina

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Trojan, would you like me to make that post a thread of its own, and maybe link it to this thread? Instead of taking up space here?

No, no need :) I only start the threads I don't mean to dictate what's in them. Besides just because I don't ask missing item questions it doesn't mean there shouldn't be missing item questions here.

(I guess the next logical question would be WHY lost item answers are meaningless...I mean, why should they be any different from anything else, really. I've gotten perfectly helpful answers to other mundane everyday questions. But that's a different topic, too. Any interest in a thread about lost item questions, using this as one example? Particularly in hex 37 would be nice to have proper thread housekeeping, right?)

Oh I am not saying lost items answers are meaningless per se, I am saying they are meaningless to me. To me they always seem like wild goose chases. The person gets an answer, looks everywhere they would have looked anyway and either find the item or don't find it. But that's just a personal view. I've nothing against lost item questions.

Others may see something in 37uc and the lost envelope. I only meant to say I couldn't help with your answer not that it shouldn't go here.
 

Trojina

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Another thing that comes to mind is that maybe losing things sometimes has a purpose and therefore the answer surpasses the question.

I have thought myself and read that sometimes when we are delayed leaving the house or somewhere that for all we know we may have avoided some accident or other mishap. Perhaps your envelope and keys were where they were meant to be in order to delay your departure by a few minutes ?

Far fetched perhaps but it's one reason I never curse weird hold ups too much. I recall driving along with my brother to visit my uncle who was dying in hospital. We were bought to a halt by a long unexpected queue of traffic and what was odd was that people were getting out of their cars then coming back smiling and talking...:confused: The reason for the delay was a lama, presumably from a nearby lama farm, who had escaped and decided to relax and have a nice sit down in the middle of the dual carriageway.

I thought to myself 'this is a hold up for a reason'. When we arrived at the hospital my uncle was not conscious but gained consciousness for a while and saw everyone visiting, my cousins had arrived at the same time. He wrote me a little note and the sun came out and shone on the bed. He saw all his family together at that moment, then after a short while went back to sleep. He was never really conscious again before he died. The timing of our visit was so perfect, we met him just at the time he could perceive us. If we had been earlier we would have left earlier and so on and may have missed that moment.

Was the lama in his proper place relaxing in the centre of the dual carriageway without a care in the world ? He might have been.

I don't think I can stretch that hypothesis to your lost keys....but unintentionally in the telling of my story, I am reminded of my uncle, my family :bows:
 

Trojina

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(I don't know if a lama is a llama or a lama but in any case it was the animal not the monk)


it belonged to the lama family. I guess the keys could be said to be found with their kin. But was the washing machine the kin of the keys and the envelope ? Aha well they were both metal ? Both are made of the family of metal...if the inside of the machine is metal.

I'm getting even more far fetched now
 

Liselle

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What a touching story :). The moment you were able to have with your uncle, the bit of pleasant bonding among people in the road, the cuteness of llamas settling in for a rest wherever they darn well feel like it (do not try this, animals-who-are-smaller-than-llamas).

Maybe 37uc was Yi saying to me, "I'm just going to keep you 'at home' for a while"? I agree it's probably far-fetched, but who knows?

AND what you're saying about delays sometimes being for good reasons - is a good point.

(I really can't see the keys and the washing machine as kin, though, despite having metal in common. Sorry...)
 

knotxx

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the two trigrams of 37 feel more like a dryer than a washer! (fire and wind)

I think I'd have taken 37uc to mean "in your house somewhere" (as opposed to in the car or on the walk or what have you), but perhaps you already knew that.

I get 37 with changing lines A LOT about career and money issues. I do work at home, so perhaps that's partly why -- also though I think it has to do with establishing and securing a home base, safe walls from which you can comfortably venture out. I agree with trojan that 37 rarely comes up for me in terms of relationship/feeling/human warmth -- more a matter of arranging and structuring and establishing.

I have 37uc exactly once in my journal, and it was just last week. I was anxious about an upcoming call with an editor to discuss revisions she wanted--what sort of self to present, how to act-- so I said "what if I focus on being open and fluid and don't get fixed on my own ideas" and got 37uc. I wasn't quite sure I understood, but Wing's comment that trojan quotes really works there: "In its static form FAMILY implies that you are the possessor of great clarity about your role. You are in fact, dependent upon this role for your sense of power and effectiveness in the world. As long as your behaviour is consonant with this, you will have no difficulties in regard to the object of your inquiry."

(The call did go very well.)
 
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the two trigrams of 37 feel more like a dryer than a washer! (fire and wind)

I think I'd have taken 37uc to mean "in your house somewhere" (as opposed to in the car or on the walk or what have you), but perhaps you already knew that.

I get 37 with changing lines A LOT about career and money issues. I do work at home, so perhaps that's partly why -- also though I think it has to do with establishing and securing a home base, safe walls from which you can comfortably venture out. I agree with trojan that 37 rarely comes up for me in terms of relationship/feeling/human warmth -- more a matter of arranging and structuring and establishing.

I have 37uc exactly once in my journal, and it was just last week. I was anxious about an upcoming call with an editor to discuss revisions she wanted--what sort of self to present, how to act-- so I said "what if I focus on being open and fluid and don't get fixed on my own ideas" and got 37uc. I wasn't quite sure I understood, but Wing's comment that trojan quotes really works there: "In its static form FAMILY implies that you are the possessor of great clarity about your role. You are in fact, dependent upon this role for your sense of power and effectiveness in the world. As long as your behaviour is consonant with this, you will have no difficulties in regard to the object of your inquiry."

(The call did go very well.)

37 as a dryer, brilliant.

LiSe's 37 commentary says a lot about family finances, running the farm.

The foundation of a family is economic. Not blood-ties, not love, not sense of duty. All these things can only come to life because there is a foundation and so the family is a family. Love is not strong enough to keep them together. But the pig they raise together, the farm they run, the skills they all bring in.

There's also the idea of the collective self, or ones own economy and skills that contribute to it.
 

Liselle

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the two trigrams of 37 feel more like a dryer than a washer! (fire and wind)

That is a lovely observation :D. And the dryer does sit right next to the washer. But still, it's not as if there is nothing in the I Ching that could possibly describe a washing machine, and so therefore the best it can do is round-aboutly describe a neighboring object.

I think I'd have taken 37uc to mean "in your house somewhere" (as opposed to in the car or on the walk or what have you), but perhaps you already knew that.

Exactly! "In my house somewhere" was useless - I did already know that much. I had never left the apartment building, so the car and sidewalk were impossible. I did check the building's hallway, and to see if I'd left the keys dangling from the lock on the outside of the door. But I hadn't, and Yi knew I hadn't.

I really don't think 37uc or the other two readings were trying to describe a location at all, unless, as I said, there's a method, or something about the hexagram, that I'm completely ignorant of. I hope 37uc meant something relevant, but I have no idea what.

The only new thought I've had since yesterday is that, if 37uc can mean "things in their right places," that maybe it being unchanging meant that the things were NOT in their right places. In this case, that could mean that I had not hung the keys on their usual hook, and I had not put the envelope down in a more normal place for putting envelopes down, such as on the kitchen table. But there are two problems with that:

  1. I think it's been said in these threads (by Hilary, and possibly others) that unchanging isn't supposed to mean the opposite of the hexagram's usual meaning - that while it may appear to be saying "opposite," that's not what is really going on. (However, I don't understand what is going on.)
  2. It would have been describing the location in a backwards and almost completely unhelpful way: "not" on the key hook and "not" on the kitchen table still left vast expanses of the apartment remaining.
 

knotxx

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About location readings - -yes they are hard. Did you actually go to a text and read the actual words, and a commentary? Hilary is always reminding us to do that and it is amazing how helpful it is. That is I tend to think "37, oh yes, I know what that means" and not go actually read the text, where I might find something quite helpful, either in the text itself or a commentary.

For example 37 says "harvest in a woman's constancy," which as hilary points out evokes hex 2. For me 2 SO OFTEN enacts that "at first confusion, then gains a master" idea--the sense that I need to hold up and wait to be guided. Which is how it worked out for you in this case. So maybe a triple meaning of: "it's in your house! right next to the dryer! oh just settle down and go about your housekeeping and all will soon be clear."

okay I might be stretching but I do think it's helpful to grab a text and read. I've told this story a million times in this forum (sorry), but I once lost a check and did a location reading, and got 25.4-42: "There can be constancy, no mistake." GEE THANKS. But I happened to have grabbed the Wilhelm commentary, and reading on, it said "You can't lose what really belongs to you, even if you throw it away." And in fact the check was in the trash. But I would never have thought of that if I hadn't read a commentary.
 

Liselle

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Did you actually go to a text and read the actual words, and a commentary?

Well, no :blush:. I just assumed I knew what 37 meant.

Okay, let's see. From Hilary's book:

"People in the home.
A woman's constancy is fruitful."
(Oracle)​

"Wind comes forth originally from fire: People in the Home.
A noble one's words have substance and her actions are consistent."
(Image)​

Wilhelm-Baynes is very close to that, as is LiSe Heyboer's translation. The commentaries are too much to quote here, but I did read them.

And no...I can't see how any of it would have helped me find the things. You could read "a woman's constancy is fruitful" as that I'd find them if I kept looking :rolleyes:. And it could make you think of a household appliance, but there are quite a few household appliances, large and small, in different areas of the apartment.

"Her actions are consistent" - I suppose it could be telling me that I should have put the keys and envelope down in a more usual, consistent place. Had I turned left instead of right when I came back in the door, I would have put them on the kitchen table, which is certainly a more normal spot for keys and envelopes than the edge of an open washing machine. They would not have gotten lost if they'd been on the table. But, you know, I turned right, towards the first trash I had in mind to gather. Such a horrible crime! :rolleyes:

If that is what it meant, then Yi spent three readings yelling at me and telling me I'm an idiot, rather than saying anything useful. MARVELOUS. :mad:
 

Trojina

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About location readings - -yes they are hard. Did you actually go to a text and read the actual words, and a commentary? Hilary is always reminding us to do that and it is amazing how helpful it is. That is I tend to think "37, oh yes, I know what that means" and not go actually read the text, where I might find something quite helpful, either in the text itself or a commentary.

No she isn't. I mean Hilary does not remind us to go and read commentaries. She suggests looking at the text, the translation of Yi, but not commentaries. I can honestly say I have never heard Hilary tell anyone to go and read a commentary.
 

Liselle

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I don't think the visual picture of the hexagram means anything, either:

Code:
---------
---------
---   ---
---------
---   ---
---------
hex 37

If it was 24 or 19, it could look like a washing machine, but I don't see how 37 does.

Code:
---  ---          ---  ---
---  ---          ---  ---
---  ---          ---  ---  
---  ---          ---  --- 
---  ---          -------- 
--------          -------- 
hex 24            hex 19

It was probably yelling at me. Sigh. Have taken up all this space for nothing. :bag:
 
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I've often found commentaries very useful from those authors/interpreters I trust. Some hardly speak to me at all at times, but some turn the lights on the essence of my situation when the actual text leaves me scratching my head with speculation. Sometimes the text is so clear, commentaries only cloud the matter. It always just depends, but even the translation of texts vary and are subject to a great amount of interpretation from those who write them. That's why I don't rely on one interpreter/translator but typically three, sometimes more.

I personally rarely am inspired from the visual picture of hexagrams, but the trigrams I always find to be more than just significant; they have always been the fundamental construct of the dynamics involved within the hexagram itself. I don't believe they came after the development of hexagrams but before, though of course there's no proof of that, before or after. It just seems the most logical to me. Such as Knot's deriving a dryer from heated air rising from the fire. I never have thought of that example, yet the trigrams do support the idea, therefore it's worth considering, to me.
 

Liselle

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Such as Knot's deriving a dryer from heated air rising from the fire. I never have thought of that example, yet the trigrams do support the idea, therefore it's worth considering, to me.

Do you mean it's worth considering in my example? Well maybe...I think that was a terrific observation by Knot, and it is true that the dryer is right next to the washer. If I'd seen "dryer" in 37uc, and gone looking in that area, I probably would have found my things right away.

The only problem I have with that is as I said before - Yi has at least a couple ways to say "washer," pretty directly. 48 (The Well), 29 (which it had cleverly used before with me to indicate the Whirlpool brand). So...why would it have chosen the more circuitous route of indicating the washing machine area by saying "dryer"?

Was it maybe trying to say more than one thing with one hexagram? Indicating the general area, AND delivering the pointed message with 37uc ("good order; things in their proper places") that I shouldn't just drop things in ridiculous places?

That does make sense...:blush:. Could the "unchanging hexagram" lesson be that since we don't have moving lines and relating hexagrams to use as clues, things like trigrams (and maybe nuclear hexagrams, etc.) do become more important?
 
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Trojina

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Somewhat off topic here but I always give Yi the possibility of not answering, I mean I always see that as a possibility in my own readings. To me it's not a servant, it's an Oracle that answers what and how it wants. Sometimes it may help with lost items, I don't know, but I wouldn't be sure in this instance if it was answering you at all so I can't play well here. I actually think Knot had a point with this

I think I'd have taken 37uc to mean "in your house somewhere" (as opposed to in the car or on the walk or what have you), but perhaps you already knew that.

37uc may have been pointing to your whole orientation to your home for all I know. Sometimes the answers go way beyond the question. You were hurrying out of your house and displaced something so might 37 point at that with a highlighter pen about being at the centre of your own hearth ? Maybe, maybe not.

Knot again may have it ;


For example 37 says "harvest in a woman's constancy," which as hilary points out evokes hex 2. For me 2 SO OFTEN enacts that "at first confusion, then gains a master" idea--the sense that I need to hold up and wait to be guided. Which is how it worked out for you in this case. So maybe a triple meaning of: "it's in your house! right next to the dryer! oh just settle down and go about your housekeeping and all will soon be clear."


To me Yi is not a finder scout who trails behind us in our busy lives picking up dropped belongings....not unless it feels like it anyway. That's my personal view of how Yi works, my personal experience is I am talking to someone with dignity, who doesn't always give me what I want when I ask. I understand though we all relate to Yi in different ways and your practical experiences with the unchanging hexagrams have been a gold mine on these threads IMO, as you ask questions I don't and seem to tap into it a different way. Here though we seem to have come a little unstuck :D
 

Trojina

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Actually I'm quite enjoying this thread...I think it has a family atmosphere...let's all hunt for someone's keys is a well known family activity isn't it. At least it takes place in every family gathering I've known

A Has anyone seen my keys
B Well where did you last have them !?
A Well if I knew that I wouldn't have lost them would I !
C I thought I saw you with them in the kitchen
D No they were my keys she had in the kitchen !
B (picking up some keys) Well here they are !
A No that's not them !
D Have you looked in your bag ?
A Yes, they aren't there !
B Well look again they may have fallen in the lining.

........................and so on

I am surprised Yi doesn't have a specific hexagram for this kind of activity....what would it be ?
 

Liselle

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Trojan, if you're saying that Yi can be arbitrary and capricious in what it chooses and does not choose to help with - I think that a lot, and it does not sit well with me :mad:. I often think that what would be considered acceptable behavior from another human being ought to also be acceptable behavior from an oracle.

In this particular example of my lost keys, I am actually pretty satisfied with the interpretation that everyone's ideas, especially Knot's, have led to (thank you, everyone! :) ). It was helping me find the things by indicating the general direction of the washer and dryer, but also admonishing me to be more careful about where I absentmindedly drop things. It did all that with one hexagram. The fact that I didn't see "dryer" in 37uc was more because I haven't learned to pay attention to trigrams. Maybe now I will! But I can see that the message was there.

I do think the response I got in the reading would have been acceptable from another person. I am constantly losing things. If I would constantly demand of people, "Find this for me," while I sit on the sofa, it would be reasonable for them to say, "No, I won't."

But if I try to look myself, with no result, and then ask for their help (which is what happened here, with the I Ching), I think it would be reasonable for them to help me, but also to be frustrated and say, "You know, Lisa, if you wouldn't just drop things anywhere at all, you wouldn't lose things so often."

I think that's what Yi was doing here. "Finding it for me" would have been hex 48 or 29 (assuming I'd understand them, of course). 37 was a bit of roundabout help, if I'd gotten the trigram hint, but also some stern upbraiding about my lack of reasonable orderliness.

Granted, this was an ad-hoc sort of situation. People wouldn't necessarily put keys where they really "belong" (on the key hook) when their intention was to dash in and dash right back out - but there are much better temporary spots than the edge of a washing machine :rolleyes:.

So - in a stunning departure from the norm - I am actually defending Yi's reading here. I'll see if I can manage to remember this the next time I get angry with it, lol.

(I don't think this has added much to our knowledge of 37uc, though, certainly not in proportion to its length, and I do apologize for that.)
 

Trojina

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Trojan, if you're saying that Yi can be arbitrary and capricious in what it chooses and does not choose to help with - I think that a lot, and it does not sit well with me :mad:. I often think that what would be considered acceptable behavior from another human being ought to also be acceptable behavior from an oracle.

:confused: no I did not mean Yi was arbitrary and capricious. I mean I see it as a higher source of understanding, that we access a higher source of understanding. As such it may not answer every single question we ask in terms of how we ask it. It is not a servant to do our bidding IMO.

In this particular example of my lost keys, I am actually pretty satisfied with the interpretation that everyone's ideas, especially Knot's, have led to (thank you, everyone! :) ). It was helping me find the things by indicating the general direction of the washer and dryer, but also admonishing me to be more careful about where I absentmindedly drop things. It did all that with one hexagram. The fact that I didn't see "dryer" in 37uc was more because I haven't learned to pay attention to trigrams. Maybe now I will! But I can see that the message was there.

That's good.

(I don't think this has added much to our knowledge of 37uc, though, certainly not in proportion to its length, and I do apologize for that
.

No apology necessary IMO. I think you and I have very different views of what Yi is which is okay but we may have got side tracked on that on this thread. :D
 

Liselle

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Liselle

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:confused: no I did not mean Yi was arbitrary and capricious. I mean I see it as a higher source of understanding, that we access a higher source of understanding. As such it may not answer every single question we ask in terms of how we ask it. It is not a servant to do our bidding IMO.

True. And I put words in your mouth, which is not okay. What I was artlessly trying to get at is that you flat-out said you find lost item readings "completely meaningless," and as far as I can tell you rarely make that sort of blanket statement.

I don't know, absolutely for sure, that my 37uc reading was ever intended to point to the dryer area. It seems reasonable, once Knot noticed the trigrams, but there's no way to know what was actually in Yi's "mind". Maybe it was only ever just fussing at me for my lack of orderliness, plain and simple. That could certainly be "higher understanding," a broader message - do not be this way, and you will have fewer of these problems.

But, if what Yi intended to say was just that the items are "in the house" - then either (1) Yi was being REALLY rude (which is its prerogative - I can't stop it, no matter how much I don't like it), or (2) it was meant as a joke. Because once I'd determined that I hadn't left the keys dangling from the door lock, it was completely impossible for them to be anywhere else BUT in the house. I had never gotten outside.

I concluded that the reading was trying to say two things at once, but I actually don't know if that's even something Yi does. (Which of course is not a matter for this thread either...)
 
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sooo

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Do you mean it's worth considering in my example? Well maybe...I think that was a terrific observation by Knot, and it is true that the dryer is right next to the washer. If I'd seen "dryer" in 37uc, and gone looking in that area, I probably would have found my things right away.

The only problem I have with that is as I said before - Yi has at least a couple ways to say "washer," pretty directly. 48 (The Well), 29 (which it had cleverly used before with me to indicate the Whirlpool brand). So...why would it have chosen the more circuitous route of indicating the washing machine area by saying "dryer"?

Was it maybe trying to say more than one thing with one hexagram? Indicating the general area, AND delivering the pointed message with 37uc ("good order; things in their proper places") that I shouldn't just drop things in ridiculous places?

That does make sense...:blush:. Could the "unchanging hexagram" lesson be that since we don't have moving lines and relating hexagrams to use as clues, things like trigrams (and maybe nuclear hexagrams, etc.) do become more important?

I was struck by the general imagery mainly. But it could be associated with the family of washers, as you have suggested. If you had asked, or others asked on your behalf, say 5 different times, chances are there would have been 5 different answers, or hints. 29, 48 might have been among them, along with 18 or 50. We're not dealing with such finite absolutes after all. There are only 64 hexagrams, which are intended to cover possibilities ranging in the millions. Secondly, washing machines do have heating elements such as hot water, which is heated through filaments, same as a dryer, and then there's the spin cycle. Thirdly, personally, I'd consider 37 as being my home and something within my home. Fourthly, I consider me my own home, with the implication being, it's within me to know or discover where the missing item is. This is why I believe the person best equipped to interpret their reading is the one whose reading it is.
 

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