36. Ming I / Darkening of the Light

rosada · Jan 2, 2008

36. Ming I / Darkening of the Light

-- --
-- -- above K'UN THE RECEPTIVE
-- --
-----
-- -- below LI THE CLINGING, FIRE
-----

Here the sun has sunk under the earth and is therefore darkened, The name of the hexagram means literally "wounding of the bright"; hence the individual lines contain frequent referance to wounding. The situation is the exact opposite of that in the foregoing hexagram. In the latter a wise man at the head of affairs has able helpers, and in the company with them makes progress; here a man of dark nature is in a position of authority and brings harm to the wise and able man.
-Wilhelm

Sparhawk · Jan 2, 2008

charly · Jan 3, 2008

rosada said:
... here a man of dark nature is in a position of authority...

Rosada:
Nobody's perfect, maybe all we are of dark nature, dark passions, hiden dessires, lack of lucidity... in a position of authority.

From: http://cyborg.namedecoder.com/webimages/chi2-MINGYI.png

Ming Yi: all robots.

Yours,

Charly

charly · Jan 3, 2008

rosada said:
... a man of dark nature ...

Rosada:

Why not a dark woman?

Yours,

Charly

ravenstar · Jan 4, 2008

Hmm, looking at sparhawk's picture (did you do this?!) The person coming down the hill with some personal belongings seems determined to move on, letting no one get in his or her way of learning, doing and achieving. In fact, it could come across as someone in a great hurry. Are they running away from something or someone and whom? Is this someone who moves frequently in their life? Someone who seeks to find the answers to life but outside themselves? I wonder too if they are very adaptable, maybe from having to deal with many upheavals in their life.

Perhaps they are more intellectual than metaphysical. Yet deep within there is a need for intimacy, not only with him or herself but with others. If they could stay focused in the face of flunctuating cirumstances, I wonder if they would start developing (awakening) their keen sense of intuition, which would then enable them to anticipate changes in their life.....especially before they arrive!

rosada said:
here a man of dark nature is in a position of authority and brings harm to the wise and able man.

When someone frustrates us to no end or let us down emotionally, we have a tendency to hurl the hurt right back (revenge)! And we may not of even meant all that we said but there was some kind of driving force in our life (the past) that made us do it.

(As children, we learned to adapt to the demands of 'Authority').

But what happens if our conscience tell us its time to deal with our fits of anger (hurt) differently than how we've been managing it in lately and in the past? This could also be caused by some external circumstance that stops us in our tracks and forces us to look in our rearview mirror which pulls us deeper into our own human nature?

ravenstar

Sparhawk · Jan 4, 2008

ravenstar said:
Hmm, looking at sparhawk's picture (did you do this?!) The person coming down the hill with some personal belongings seems determined to move on, letting no one get in his or her way of learning, doing and achieving. In fact, it could come across as someone in a great hurry. Are they running away from something or someone and whom? Is this someone who moves frequently in their life? Someone who seeks to find the answers to life but outside themselves? I wonder too if they are very adaptable, maybe from having to deal with many upheavals in their life.

Nope, I didn't... They are from a nifty pack of Yi cards I found in a bookstore in Chinatown. As for the image of the man, my thought is that he's walking away from the light. See, mountains in ancient China are sacred places where one goes to find and follow the "Way." The man seems to have tried to find the light of the Way but has given up and is now on the way down and away from the one place where he had any hope of finding it.

Now I have a headache... Is too early in the morning for anything but jokes...

Cheers,

maremaria · Jan 4, 2008

What if we say that the man is running away from the "sun-eating dragon" ?

Sparhawk · Jan 4, 2008

maremaria said:
What if we say that the man is running away from the "sun-eating dragon" ?

I doubt it, that dragon only eat suns... :rolling:

maremaria · Jan 4, 2008

.... And moons

The ancient Chinese believed that solar eclipses occur when a legendary celestial dragon devours the Sun. They also believed that this dragon attacks the Moon during lunar eclipses. In the Chinese language, the term for eclipse was "chih" which also means "to eat". One ancient Chinese solar eclipse record describes a solar eclipse as "the Sun has been eaten". from here

rosada · Jan 4, 2008

THE JUDGEMENT

DARKENING OF THE LIGHT. In adversity
It furthers one to be persevering.

One must not unresistingly let himself be swept along by unfavorable circumstances, nor permit his steadfastness to be shaken. He can avoid this by maintaining his inner light, while remaining outwardly yielding and tractable. With this attitude he can overcome even the greatest adversities.
In some situations indeed a man must hide his light, in order to make his will prevail in spite of difficulties in his immediate enviornment. Perseverance must dwell in inmost consciousness and should not be discernible from without.
Only thus is a man able to maintain his will in the face of difficulties.
-Wilhelm

rosada · Jan 4, 2008

Other than the fact it is a picture of night, I don't think the artist has adequately depicted the meaning of 36 in this picture of a man apparently sneaking away under the cover of darkness. By showing the man alone it misses the lesson in 36, which teaches about how to maintain one's integrity in a hostle group. Hmm..after reading the lines I think it could be considered to be representing 36.1.

Trojina · Jan 4, 2008

Heh heh this reminds of a question I put to the Yi last year. I find long periods of hot bright sun really depressing,(ok I'm weird) I want to avoid it yet at the same time feel as if I should be out enjoying it. Not that we did have much sun last year but on one day we must have because i asked something like "how can I cope with this today" (its hard to explain exactly how too much sun affects me ) and got 36.4 ! Yup stay out of the sun out of the light, keep under cover and pretend to be mad, thats the way forward in 36

Trojina · Jan 4, 2008

I think 36 refers to times its a good idea to 'hide from the light' to avoid attention so one can go ones own way unimpeded - but the whole purpose of this is so one can protect ones own light, keep ones own fire burning in the face of non acceptance and hostility

Sparhawk · Jan 4, 2008

rosada said:
Other than the fact it is a picture of night, I don't think the artist has adequately depicted the meaning of 36 in this picture of a man apparently sneaking away under the cover of darkness.

It isn't a picture of night, it is a picture of an eclipse... Eclipses have powerful occult and metaphysical meanings.

maremaria · Jan 4, 2008

An eclipse (Ancient Greek noun έκλειψις (ékleipsis), from verb εκλείπω (ekleípō), "I cease to exist," a combination of prefix εκ- (ek-), from preposition εκ, εξ (ek, ex), "out," and of verb λείπω (leípō), "I am absent")

Trojina · Jan 4, 2008

But 36 isn't about an eclipse, 55 is about eclipse. I don't think 36 is the light being blotted out, as in night time but protecting your own inner light in dark times.

Also i find 36 has much to do with play acting to conceal your true feelings as its dangerous for your true thoughts and feelings to be known.

Trojina · Jan 4, 2008

maremaria said:
An eclipse (Ancient Greek noun έκλειψις (ékleipsis), from verb εκλείπω (ekleípō), "I cease to exist," a combination of prefix εκ- (ek-), from preposition εκ, εξ (ek, ex), "out," and of verb λείπω (leípō), "I am absent")

Though yes with 36 you do make yourself absent somehow, even through joking or playing the fool as disguise. I always imagine a court jester for 36 as i think it was one of their functions to have an influence on the opinions of the king indirectly. The king is open and relaxed when faced with the jester, he feels no threat from him so under the disguise of humour the jester is able to speak his true feelings

maremaria · Jan 4, 2008

trojan said:
Though yes with 36 you do make yourself absent somehow, ...

Yes, it looks like that. Not very sure though. I had never connect 36 with eclipse but the picture Luis posted make some sence to me. Looks from here that in 36 somebody threaten onces light/ fire and he/she has to save it/protect it, hide the fire in a cave (earth) probably.

Sparhawk · Jan 4, 2008

trojan said:
But 36 isn't about an eclipse, 55 is about eclipse. I don't think 36 is the light being blotted out, as in night time but protecting your own inner light in dark times.

Let's forget about the text for a moment and look at the composition of the hexagram. The sun is being submerged by the earth (and by association, the sun is being blocked by a planetary object, such as the moon; and it, the moon, is also represented in the nuclear trigrams). Whatever way you may interpret the message as it pertains to a personal inquire it is fine, but the image of the hexagram speaks for itself. The artist that designed the cards took this into account.

jesed · Jan 4, 2008

Dear friend

sparhawk said:
Let's forget about the text for a moment .

Sacrilegio¡¡¡¡¡¡ Only the text is real Yi... :rolling:

36 is not an eclipse... because Yi's hexagram have only one way to be understood... and for eclipse it is only 55. Anybody knows that :rolling:

The little fact that even the text of 36 talks about times of adversity (and in chinese ancient time, the night wasn't a time of adversity, but eclipses did) has no relevance. :duh:

Best

P.S. Dou you know what happened with e-ching forum?

jesed · Jan 4, 2008

rosada said:
I don't think the artist has adequately depicted the meaning of 36 in this picture of a man apparently sneaking away under the cover of darkness.

What if the man is not covering under cover of darkness, but covering himself from a dark enviroment? (whatever the dark enviroment could be: his group, or his job, or his inner fears, or economical crisis)

jesed · Jan 4, 2008

BTW.. you wouldn't go to the Mountain to find the Way during an eclipse... but you would run to reach a safe place if an eclipse find you there.

But I have say to much in this thread.. I rather find my safe place within my bag :bag:

Sparhawk · Jan 4, 2008

Feliz Año Nuevo, Rodrigo!!!

jesed said:
P.S. Dou you know what happened with e-ching forum?

Great question. I've tried to contact the administrator several times, as well as Ichingyafines has, and no answer whatsoever from him. I'm sure is a money problem. I even tried to contact the hosting company to pay for the subscription myself but they didn't want to hear me because I was not the owner. Oh well...

In the good news department, I'm setting up a Spanish forum in my Yitoons site. The other one at Sorocabana is still there but the I'm reaching the bandwidth limit there and I don't want to pay more for it. The hosting company for Yitoons gives me a lot more bandwidth and will be able to handle the load. Ichingyafines is helping me to setup the topics. I will advise when is up and running. If you PM your email address I will send you the topics Afines is proposing and you can add your ideas.

Un abrazo,

Trojina · Jan 4, 2008

Oh feel free Jesed. I'll stay right out of this thread if you want to be snide here. 36 it is !

Trojina · Jan 4, 2008

jesed said:
Dear friend

Sacrilegio¡¡¡¡¡¡ Only the text is real Yi...

36 is not an eclipse... because Yi's hexagram have only one way to be understood... and for eclipse it is only 55. Anybody knows that

QUOTE]

And that is snide and I've encountered your open hostility to me here before and don't appreciate it so please put my posts on your ignore lists if you find them so absurd - oh and please don't send me unpleasant private PMs either !

As for implying that I think there is only one way to interpret a hexagram thats ridiculous, I just don't especially see 36 as an eclipse or haven't until now, perhaps I will, I'm open to learn, probably not through being jeered at ie you mocking my remarks to someone else.

I don't think its 'sacreligious' to see the Yi from a non textual stance its just not a perspective I'm too familiar with using - each to his own isn't it. Like for example I never give a damn about timing in questions or events but you seem to find it very important and I don't mock you or interrupt your posts with snide comments to others about it.

rosada · Jan 4, 2008

Hubby brought home the dvd, "Being John Malkovich" which seems a suitable accompaniment to this hexagram.

jesed · Jan 5, 2008

Trojan

Be happy.

Best

noxlux · Jan 5, 2008

tarot correspondence

Howdy,

I have a background in mainstream western tradition esotericism. while I generally avoid drawing paralells between different systems of thought b4 I have thouroughly mastered them both the hiding of the light has always in me triggered the association to the hermit - even in exile keeping to the inner light, guarding the inner light, following the inner light.

(In no way shape or form do I suggest the two means the same - only that some of the meanings of the hermit and some of the meanings of ming i touch each other.)

Noxlux

ravenstar · Jan 5, 2008

Okay, I'm beginnin to understand what this hexagram is saying now. I'm still very new at this and am learning from each and everyone one of you.

I'd like to share something from a book I purchased a while back. It's the commentary on Hex 36, and would love to hear your comments.

The Tao of Power by R.L. Wing said:
Organizations with the highest strategic advantage are those with the greatest potential for loss. When an organization becomes overextended, when it complacently accepts praise and promotion, gifts and abundant profits, when it beleives itself to be growing ever stronger...it is then that it is most vulnerable. It has become unstable within the natural cycle of polarity and is on a path leading toward its opposite state. Because "fish" taken from the watery depths cannot survive, organizations should keep their advantages out of sight and out of action. Advantages that are restrained are more effective and long-lasting than those that are displayed because concealed advantages do not cause resistatnce or counter-reactions.

Inherent in this passage are instructions for a smaller organization that would overcome a large one. The principle behind "Subtle Insight" is one that is frequently repreated in the Tao Te Ching. The weak can overcome the strong by yielding and contribution to the excessiveness of the strong. Excessiveness germinates the seed that forces things to grow into their opposite

I thought this was rather interesting, and read it (oh oh)after I had responded in the beginning of this thread. But I'd like to ask, do the Hexagrams evolve through time, or stay the same?

Could this symbol apply to one person who is struggling, learning to cope with their many archetypes? It is essentially a 'group' although contained within one physical body. Then would the picture that sparhawk? posted be relevant?

What happens if a question with this Hexagram isn't about a group but one person? How would you interpret it then?

Sorry for all the questions. Just trying to get a better understanding.

Thanks,
ravenstar :blush:

jesed · Jan 5, 2008

Hi raven

ravenstar said:
Could this symbol apply to one person who is struggling, learning to cope with their many archetypes?

I'll put the jokes aside to give one personal comment in case it could be of any use for you.

There is one guy in Chile, from who I had learned some tools of interpretation. His name is Ricardo Andree. The jokes I made to Luis in this thread was related to a long dialogue between Luis and I about not taking too seriously the yi's studies, and the yi's schools, and the yi's "masters". And Ricardo has a lot to do with this friendly and not-to-serious dialogue.

Well, something I do value from Ricardo happened a long time ago. Using the Yi to understand a time to (what you called) "learning to cope with my many archetypes", i got hex 36.

My first reaction was: "this is a bad sign... maybe I'm in a wrong path".

Ricardo, instead, said to me: "wonderful"....

When you acknowledge the darkness around you and the light inside you (sign 36), is because you are in the middle of the process to be able to be inside the archetype without being dominated by it anymore. Archetypes are like the dark earth (dark here has no negative meaning), but you can preserve the light of consciousness (the fire within).

In that moment, that answer (both the Yi's answer and Ricardo's interpretation) was a great help for me. I don't know if this old memory coud be useful for you.

Best wishes

P.S. On the other hand, some would say: "hey! see how wrong the result was, being now Jesed as Jesed is now" :rolling:

:bag:

36. Ming I / Darkening of the Light

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