61. Chung Fu / Inner Truth

[rosada]

61.1 Be prepared.

I always thought this was a rather benign line but now I'm thinking of it as a dire warning.
I'vd caught a cold and since I didn't have any medicine in the house it had a chance to get in deep. I'm taking something now so getting better but if I'd been prepared this wouldn't have happened at all.

 

[meng]

LiSe's reference to Harmen's Fu -

A quality which is essential for inspiring others

- could play well into line 1's 'readiness but ulterior purpose unsettles'. For example, when someone is trying to sell me on something, the inspirational attempt fails because it was an attempt. In Fu there is no attempting. "Do or do not, there is no try." ~ Yoda

 

[charly]

LiSe's reference to Harmen's Fu -

- could play well into line 1's 'readiness but ulterior purpose unsettles'. For example, when someone is trying to sell me on something, the inspirational attempt fails because it was an attempt. In Fu there is no attempting. "Do or do not, there is no try." ~ Yoda

Bruce:

I remember something about the JOY OF CUTTING-OFF HEADS by Tony Saroop, who took too seriously the translation of Rutt. Maybe more heads cut-off more reliable the king, the sense of reliability, as all sense, is relative. Even truth is relative.

Was maybe this the flute you said?

http://sites.google.com/site/ichingorg/online-of-books


Yours,

Charly

 

[charly]

From Arthur Waley:

... Let us turn to insects.

The ant is extraordinarily sensitive to atmospheric conditions and is esteemed as a weather-prophet all over the world... The modern Chinese peasant of course has his ant-proverbs. The usual Chinese word for the ant ... does not occur in the Changes.

About twenty times, however, we find the character 孚 [FU], which is said to mean 'sincere'. In almost every case, the context requires a far more concrete, substantival meaning. Moreover moral meanings, such as upright, just, sincere, etc., come late into a language. Thus the Greek dike means originally not justice, but merely 'what is customary.' 'Moral' too has etymologically the same meaning. 'Virtue' means potential power, not virtuous conduct in the moral sense.

'Sincere' cannot have been the original meaning of 孚 [FU]. In the Oracle Bones it seems generally to stand for 俘 [FU] 'prisoner'.

A possible semantic history of the word is as follows:

{1) the creature which carries its young (i. e. eggs) in its claws;
(2) true, reliable (because of the reliable character of the ant's weather prophecies); (3) a guarantee of reliability, a hostage;
(4) any captive of war;
(5) the moral meaning 'sincere' is a derivative of (2).

This is mere speculation...

THE BOOK OF CHANGES BY ARTHUR WALEY
From Steve Marshal´s page
http://www.biroco.com/yijing/waley.pdf

Ch.

 

[rodaki]

hello everyone

sorry for getting me so long to get back . . things have gone a bit awry, including my computer blacking out on me . . had to reinstall everything, what was not backed-up -like my bookmarks- is gone . . reminds me of 'being prepared' . . Rosada hope you're doing better!

Charly,

Your are speaking like an oracle or maybe asking like a Sphinx.

uch: . . uhm, ok, I didn't mean to sound that convoluted . . should probably leave my books aside for a while

the works of Madoz and Borges have been some of my favorites for years now (even wrote my first essays on them ), because they remind me how what we take for granted is in fact more elusive than obvious -Maria I love that last sentence too, I think there's a whole lot of 59 going on there . . dispelling illusions, having our pre-conceived ideas being broken down, crystallized beliefs melting away . .
the same with Madoz, what helps us see (glasses) can also block our vision (as knot or bow), processes of inner growth might leave us with traces of destructive forces, a given mindset that protects might just turn out to be one same old film being repeated in our thoughts and imaginings . .

my up-to-now take on 61.1's secret designs has been that they are about these assumptions, presumptions, conjectures, even expectations, the givens we take for granted to get by in our everyday life, the set ideas that turn fluid experience into a crystallized view of reality . . and in the beginning of 61 they need to be dispersed in order to reach an inner knowing or safety. . or at least this is how it has worked for me in the past . .

on a different note, I really enjoyed Harmen's article on fu . . what I gathered from it was:
-fu as captive caught in the field of battle, war booty
-fu as king's credentials for his trustworthiness as ruler
-fu as the protective gesture towards a seedling (which reminds me lots of an almost instinctive gesture that happens between parents and children in the street: mum/dad hold out their hand, the young ones instantly wrap their fingers around it, or mum/dad reaching out to grab a toddler that tries to cross the street)

so . . . could it be that the most worthy loot was the producing of an heir? often this was the way kings ascertained their power and worth and secured their place in accordance to the divine will and order . . fishes and pigs could also point then to the reproductive capacity and the young ignorant kid respectively . . could we bring all three meanings in this one -in terms at least of what it could mean in a broader social context?

but the same idea could also apply to our own inner workings . . what inspires confidence in ourselves, even more than objective accomplishments and attributions, could be found in our grasp (our gut recognition as Frank and Charly mentioned) of our own seedling, of the little kid we carry inside us as future possibility and original trace . . what connects us to our true nature and to our inner, unspoiled and self-renewing faith and trust . .

maybe in order to reach and bring forth this inner kid/seed we have to let loose all we know as adults, our law making and drawing lines and pronouncing judgement . .
. . still, the 'being prepared' of line 1 puzzles me . . how can we prepare for letting go?

p.s.1: Charly I remember how looking into 57.4 and Odysseus I had come across an article that linked the structures of myths found in ancient Greece and Japan . . could it be that your findings go back to sth similar?
p.s.2: I was really glad you brought up Pandora's box, I've been thinking abt it ever since Mike commented on the boxes in Luis' card . . for those who don't know the myth, Pandora was supposed to be the first mortal woman and was built by the gods as a punishment for Prometheus stealing the fire to give it to men . . she came carrying a jar which should not be opened; Pandora being curious, opened the jar which contained all kinds of evils. Scared by her deed she quickly closed the jar, locking in Hope, also contained there . . Now for a long time I wondered what was the meaning of this myth and why did hope get stuck in -this felt really unfair . . but maybe hope lies locked up so that we can hope to release it -maybe hope survives only if kept as a seed and a promise for the future . .

would love to hear your feedback on these -hope I haven't been rambling too much . .

 

[pantherpanther]

Is there such a thing as truth, absolute truth ? Some people say that the truth is relative. My truth is Me , the perception I have about matter according to all the things makes me, and likewise your truth is You and every makes you.

When Meng post that information about dolphins, I googled and found that a scientist that spend many years studying dolphins he couldn’t believe the new finding. He was surprised by the new facts. So the truth till then , was a kind of as-far-as-I-know truth.

Perhaps “secret designs” is something as Trojan said. All those things that stand between the truth we can see and the actual truth. All the things that create a veil, illusion, misconception, expectations, conditions.

Behind what we say “this is it” might be a “ this is not it”. I have a reading about a very important matter and I’m a bit lost because I have lay on the table all the possible meanings. I believe that some assumption of that this reading wants to tell me are right and some others not. But in order to reach to the “true” answer I have to doubt for everything I have write. Not doubt as mistrust but as to question. Delay execution.

The fan yao of 61.1 is 59, dissolve. How can we achieve that if not by doubting, questioning if what we see is what actually is or if it is an illusion?

Which is the path towards inner truth , in your opinion. If there is a path…Well, must be a path, to go inside that egg and see if there is a germ.

Would like to hear your opinions.

Maria

>>>>
Very nice. To be impartial requires a conscious effort to be aware of and to separate from one's subjective habitual, "educated" biases, opinions and "knowledge." The unknown, like change, is instinctively feared as a threat, the loss of one's identity (self-love). The ego has an agenda and lies to assert control and maintain its status.

 

[rosada]

Doin' a lot better today, thanks.

On the threshold of Inner Truth, I see line one as an invitation to prepare oneself for meditation. A time to quiet the mind.

Rosada

 

[rosada]

61.2
Nine in the second place means:

A crane calling in the shade.
Its young answer it.
I have a good goblet.
I will share it with you.

-Wilhelm

 

[chacha1]

The "I'll share it with you" entered my mind also. The highest sincerity moves even pigs and fishes (most simplistic creatures). One accord. There's advantage in attempting great things, with integrity. One is at peace. Happiness. If by any other means, no peace.The crying out of a mother. From her place. The children respond. It is as if I have something to share, and I'll share it with you. Someone has met their yang. First he celebrates, now all's quiet. Now he mourns, now once again he is happy. Almost full to capacity-one rides alone. A sincere heart attracts it's like. One soars, and flies too high. No matter what, all is not well. Inner Truth= Sincerity. Sincerity is real,truth is real, and only one's own mind knows what is in one's own heart.

 

[rosada]

61.2
Nine in the second place means:
A crane calling in the shade.
Its young answers it.
I have a goblet for you.
I will share it with you.

This refers to the involuntary influence of a man's inner being upon persons of kindred spirit. The crane need not show itself on a high hill. It may be quite hidden when it sounds its call; yet its young will hear its note, will recognize it and give answer. Where there is a joyous mood, there a comrade will appear to share a glass of wine.

This is the echo awakened in men through spiritual attraction. Whenever a feeling is voiced with truth and frankness, whenever a deed is the clear expression of sentiment, a mysterious and far reaching influence is exerted. At first it acts on those who are inwardly receptive. But the circle grows larger and larger. The root of all influence lies in one's own inner being: given true and vigorous expression in word and deed, Its effect is great. the effect is but the reflection of something that emanates from one's own heart. Any deliberate intention of an effect would only distroy the possibility of producing it.
Confucius says about this line:

The superior man abides in his room. If his words are well spoken, he meets with assent at a distance of more than a thousand miles. How much more then from near by! If the superior man abides in his room and his words are not well spoken, he meets with contradiction at a distance of more than a thousand miles. How much more then from near by! Words go forth from one's own person and exert their influence on men. Deeds are born close at hand and become visible far away. Words and deeds are the hinge and bowspring of the superior man. As hinge and bowspring move, they bring honor or disgrace. Through words and deeds the superior man moves heaven and earth. Must one not, then, be cautious?
-Wilhelm

 

[my_key]

61.1 - Having had the wonderful experience of correct use of limitations, we are now fully prepared for that good work and the insights to show themselves - we are stepping into a place of empowerment here but watch out 'cos if you have still some a few vestiges of shadow hanging around then it's time to let them go otherwise the journey is going to be taken to a destination that you didn’t expect.

61.2 –Your inner truth will always shine out in the interactions / relations with others. Sometimes this will show itself on the plus side and sometimes this will be on the minus side, but rest assured whatever your inner truth is it’ll find it’s way out and it’s call will be answered by those around you. As within, so without.

 

[rosada]

61.1 Be prepared...
61.2 To share.

I took Jax out in his stroller today. There are a lot of homeless people in Santa Cruz, probably because of the nice park and mild weather, so I often get asked for handouts. Today I took some hard boiled eggs with me. As it turned out no one stopped us, but I felt a lot more comfortable on the walk knowing I wouldn't be turning a blind eye to loss souls.
Hmm..just realized that 61.1.2 leads to 20.View, being able to see more when you are prepared to share?
Rosada.

 

[rosada]

61.2
Nine in the second place:

a) A crane calling in the shade.
Its young answers it.
I have a good goblet.
I will share it with you.

b) "Its young answers it": this is the affection of the inmost heart.

The crane is a lake bird whose cry is heard in the autumn. Tui means lake and autumn. The nuclear trigram Chen denotes inclination to call, hence the image of a calling crane. It is under the nuclear trigram Ken, mountain, in the shadow of two yin lines, in the middle of Tui, the lake, hence "in the shade." Its son is the nine at the beginning, which is of like kind and belongs to the same body (the lower trigram). According to another interpretation, its relationship is with the nine in the fifth place, This suggestion - of influence at a distance - gains added weight from the explanation given by Confucius. Goblet and drinking are derived from Tui, mouth.
-Wilhelm

 

[my_key]

Here's some stuff about cranes.
The crane is the most popular bird in Chinese history and is a symbol of longevity and auspiciousness. In ancient China the crane was regarded as having a long life span and one Chinese legend says that an immortal rode a crane to heaven. The crane also represents a lasting soaring spirit, health, and happiness. In ancient China crane images were embroidered on robes of first-rank officials so the crane was held in high esteem and known as a first-rank bird.
To the ancient Chinese, the Crane was a symbol of justice and longevity.
A Crane totem entering your life could signal recovery of what was lost to you.

Mike

 

[meng]

A Crane totem entering your life could signal recovery of what was lost to you.

Wonder if the western myth of a baby arriving carried by a crane is related to that?

Probably like many of us, my nearest real life connection to a crane-like bird is the heron.

Entering the calm backwater, through the mist her powdery silhouette stood upon a leg. I feel as though I've intruded upon a holy thing, and let the boat glide quietly to an awkward stillness.. the ripples reaching her, yet she doesn't retreat. Rightly entitled to this place, she continues her stealthy creeping: plucking here and there her morning fare, and sharing this moment and place.

 

[my_key]

Wonder if the western myth of a baby arriving carried by a crane is related to that?

It could well be. I'm also thinking about Peter Pan and The Lost Boys here. Or perhaps even the biblical "That which was lost is found"

Congratulations ompom:- a powerful message is conjured up by your words about the heron. I'm still trying to unravel all the imagery I've read them a number of times. Truely beautiful:bows:

Mike

 

[meng]

Glad it spoke to you, Mike. The hinted at conveys more potential power than either the explanation or the literal truth. But only to one who hears it. :bows:

 

[meng]

I'd dare go so far as to say, the book of changes could be subtitled the 'book of potentials, conveyed through hints'.

 

[my_key]

I'd dare go so far as to say, the book of changes could be subtitled the 'book of potentials, conveyed through hints'.

That's good too.The more subtle the hint the more powerful the potential.

 

[rosada]

61.3
#Six in the third place means:

He finds a comrade. Now he beats the drum, now he stops.
Now he sobs, now he sings.

Here the source of a man's strength lies not in himself but in his relation to other people. No matter how close to them he may be, if his center of gravity depends on them, he is inevitably tossed to and fro between joy and sorrow. Rejoicing go high heaven, then sad unto death - this is the fate of those who depend upon an inner accord with other persons whom they love. Here we have only the statement of the law that this is so. Whether this condition is felt to be an affliction or the supreme happiness of love, is left to the subjective verdict of the person concerned.
-Wilhelm

 

[rodaki]

backtracking a bit here . . .

very interesting article on crane myths (mostly western though . .)

there's a part of it that might explain the babies' story (even though cranes are different from storks and herons, they seem to be attributed very similar traits -in greek they even shared the same name . .)

Many cultures
believe that cranes will sometimes carry small birds on
their backs to help them on their long migrations. Thus
the Siberian Tartars believed that cranes transport
corncrakes southward, and Egyptians believed that
both cranes and storks carry small birds across the
Mediterranean. Similarly, the Crow Indians of Montana
believed that the sandhill crane carries a small bird, the
napzte-shu-utl, or "crane's back," on its back. This
small bird regularly accompanies the crane, and flutters
up to settle on the bird's back when it takes off. At this
time the bird utters a chattering whistle, which is the
basis for the Crow warriors' blowing a small bone
whistle when they go riding off to battle (Ingersoll,
1923).

 

[charly]

... should probably leave my books aside for a while

the works of Madoz and Borges have been some of my favorites for years...
... maybe hope lies locked up so that we can hope to release it -maybe hope survives only if kept as a seed and a promise for the future . .
...

Dora:

Please, don't. It wasn't a critic, it was a compliment.

Georgie was fond of the Changes. Have you read «The garden of the forked paths» ?

http://courses.essex.ac.uk/lt/lt204/forking_paths.htm​

YI inspired indeed. Many times he was mistaken but he was fond of books as fond of women.

I remember him near the School of Philosophy, when director of the National Library, always going on foot and always escorted by a pretty girl. Almost blind but not so old, always in love.

Yours,

Charly

P.D.

Many thanks for the crane myths.

Ch.

 

[rodaki]

dear Charly

'Garden' is one of my favorites . . and 'Pierre Menard' and 'Funes the Memorious', 'The Library', 'The lottery', 'The Encyclopedia' 'The Zahir' and so many more . .
how great to walk down the street and run into Borges that casually!

thank you for the link and everything

:bows:

 

[charly]

... 'Garden' is one of my favorites ...

Dear Dora:

I was thinking about the CRANES and about what were they doing in H.61.

Maybe the cranes were singing with the only purpose of INSPIRING CONFIDENCE. Everybody know that cranes KIDNAPED people, better if CHILDREN (1) or beautiful GIRLS (2), and female cranes even BOYS and MEN. Last cases with marriage intentions.

After all, the idyllic image of the crane and children is but a parallellism, maybe an introduction, for the INVITATION TO DRINK.

Who makes the invitation? the YI doesn't say (3)

For whom is the invitation? Of course for US. WE are the persons that should be the guests.

The YI doesn't say even with what sort of drink we are invited. Only mentions the type of vessel, a JUG, the shape of which came from the prehistory of chinese people, the 爵 YUE.

From: http://tec.hkst.com/tig_01.asp​

We don't know if wine, beer or gin. We only can imagine: a magic drink, a narcotic, blood? The immortality potion? I believe any beverage used for people going to be INITIATED, going to be DRUNK.

Maybe these peaceful cranes are willing of take us for a journey to the otherworld, with uncertain results. A RISKY JOURNEY.

The kidnapper cranes!

But cranes passed, it's yet an old story. Now, at 61.3, we are just facing our own other ego, we don't know if to laugh or to weep (4).

Best wishes,

Charly


___________________________________________
(1) Or maybe were the geese that kidnapped children? The wild geese of russian folktales? Why not the cranes?

(2) Reading the document you posted, we see that cranes kidnaped women:

One autumn day, very long ago, the cranes were preparing to go southward. As they were gathered in the great flock they saw a beautiful young woman standing alone near the village.

Admiring hergreatly, the cranes gathered about, and lifting her on their widespread wings, bore her far up in the air and away.

While the clanes were taking her up they circled below her so closely that she c.ould not fall, and their loud, hoarse cries drowned out her calls for help, so she was carried away and never seen again.

Ever since that time the cranes always circle about in autumn, uttering their loud cries while preparing to fly southward, as they didat that time. (Nelson, 1896-97)

From: Cranes in Myth and Legend by P.A.johndgard
(at the document whose link you posted)

(3) Some readers believe that is the crane or also the children, but the text doesn't say who is speaking, who is using the pronoun I (or WE). Maybe the oracle?

(4) Of course is preferable to laugh.

 

[rosada]

Kinda interesting the long discussions going on over on the Moderation thread in Open Space considering the advice here at hexagram 61, "The superior man discusses cases in order to delay executions."

For the 0.01% who don't know what I'm referring to, there's been a long debate as to whether someone's postings have been so inappropriate as to deserve banning. The problem I think is that the postings probably do qualify for a time out, but this poster has had so many time outs that the rules call for her to be banned -executed!- if she disrupts again, so there's much discussion as to whether she should be given another time-out, knowing that this was to be her last chance.

Seems to me we should just change the rules and say "Whenever anyone is out of bounds in their postings they will be automatically expelled to the side lines for 24 hours," and not worry about how many times they are put in time out.
This way we can both avoid the hand ringing of completely banning someone (I'm certainly not for the death penalty in my "real" life, why should I be different here?), and also be able to put them on the bench whenever they act inappropriately, even if the manner is slight but still needs correcting.

After writing this all out I've decided to actually post this idea over in the moderation area. I'm leaving it here too though cause I think it's an interesting manifestation of 61. "Discussing criminal cases to delay execution."

 

[rosada]

61.2 is a mother calling to its young. I wonder if 61.3 could be seen to be two siblings? I think the inner truth that exists between two sister's who love each other and share the same bedroom for years are even a better example of this inner twining than even two lovers.

 

[meng]

Sighting Bradford's 61.3 comment:

...purely relative truth will not work. It ends in codependence.... some central truth must be presumed, even if it's fiction.

 

[meng]

61.2 is a mother calling to its young. I wonder if 61.3 could be seen to be two siblings? I think the inner truth that exists between two sister's who love each other and share the same bedroom for years are even a better example of this inner twining than even two lovers.

Sibling love. Thinking of early years sharing a room with by elder brother... mm, maybe it's different for sisters but we both couldn't wait to get out on our own in our own place. However, the sisters image does make sense for line 3. One balances the other. 61 is made of trigrams eldest sister over youngest sister.

 

[rodaki]

hi everyone,

Charly it was interesting to read your thoughts on cranes . . what stayed with me more from this article was the similarities I found between fu and 'congruence'/'pedigree' . . and also the comments on how cranes use rocks for balance or else and the little story on the sand they keep in their mouth which, by the end of their journey has turned into a powerful catalyst (a stone that can turn things into gold or sth similar to that effect . .) same input, different eyes . .

back to 61.3, I was thinking about this upper line of lake and looked it up in the other hexagrams with lake as lower trigram (10, 19, 38, 41, 54, 58, 60, 61) and well, it doesn't look good in most of them . . maybe this is because here lake is too susceptible to every effect -41.3 and 58.3 look the most promising of all cause lake either cuts down on what sways it or stops projecting too much . .

also the fan yao gives an interesting outlook on the drama of 61.3 which looks almost trivial in 9's small taming . . thinking about the yin-shadow side of 61 there seems to be a disconnect under its domain that effects 9.3

personal note on 61.3: what I find when i look at myself sometimes leaves me happy and confident, other times sad and disillusioned -and this can make or break my conducting of everyday life, which nonetheless, needs to move forward

 

[rodaki]

Richmond's comments on 61.3 are -I think- interesting to ponder

The natural flow of this tao is halted if the giving out is withheld -the tao requires that we do not interfere with the life flow, we simply take part. When we do not take part there is some purpose, a desire to make something better or worse, and for these purposes we push reality this way and that.

Image:
He meets another.
He beats a drum
starting and stopping.
He weeps and sings alternately.

The 'other' that we meet creates polarity and the world of pendulum swinging from one pole to the other. When we do not remain centred but project our self into attitudes this image symbolizes the experience we have.

I Ching Oracle

He does not now act out on an individual path, being aware of the one-sided nature of this. He sees polarities as equally valid and uses first one side of the coin then the other. He no longer hides half, or fears the other

Language of the Lines