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63. Chi Chi / After Completion

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maremaria

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Ricardo Andree says that 63 is a transitional balance or stop in the path of completing the transformation. The risk is to believe that you have ended it already. If you don't move forward, the goal may elude you.

I like that !

It make sense looking at the Judgement’s lines :
Success in small matters.
Perseverance furthers.
At the beginning good fortune,
At the end disorder.


So the key words here is “perseverance futhers”

Someone learned it the hard way here :rolleyes:
The graphics at the beginning and the end of the video reminds me of 63.
 

tuckchang

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It make sense looking at the Judgement’s lines :
Success in small matters.
Perseverance furthers.
At the beginning good fortune,
At the end disorder.

I am not a diviner but just interested in studying the I Ching (i.e. Zhou Yi + ten wings). My paraphrase might not comply with your comprehension or divination; however I would like to offer you different perspectives in thinking and a different exprience in reading the I Ching, i.e. to view a hexagram together with its six lines, and to journey in following the sequence and among its related hexagrams.

Text: 亨 (heng1) 小 (xiao3: small),利 (li4) 貞 (zhen1),初吉終亂。

Confucian remarks: 亨,1) 小者 (zhe3: those who) 亨也。 2) 利貞,剛 (gang1: rigidity, i.e. Yang) 柔 (rou2: tenderness, i.e. Yin) 正而位當也 (正 zheng4: centrally located, 位當 wei4 dang1: at the positions suited to them) 。 3) 初吉,柔得中 (de2 zhong1: to attain the middle) 也。終止則亂,其道 (dao4) 窮 (giong2) 也。

亨 (heng1): to go smoothly. According to Confucian remarks: 嘉 (jia1: beauty) 之會 (hui4: convergence), it can be understood as the convergence (in a perfect status) of good things (i.e. unobstructed interplays between Yin and Yang or favorable changes). In Wilhelm’s writing, it is interpreted as success; I will say: a smooth progress might lead to success.

利 (li4): to benefit or facilitate. According to Confucian remarks: 義 (yi4: just or righteousness) 之和 (he2: the sum of x + y, a symbiotic and peaceful state), it can be understood as a beneficial consequence of appropriate actions.
貞 (zhen1): loyalty or chastity, signifying to remain unchanged (i.e. not to be affected) or unchanging (i.e. to maintain what one has been doing), i.e. persistence or preservation. According to Confucian remarks: 事 (shi4: things or tasks) 之幹 (gan4: the trunk), i.e. the trunk in dealing with tasks; it can be understood as to persist with fortitude like the trunk of a tree.
If Wilhelm’s interpretation ‘利貞 perseverance furthers’ is regarded as ‘to move forth’, this won’t be in accord with his statement of transmission Hex 11 (Tai) to Hex 12 (Pi)

Confucian remarks:
1) 小者亨也: The small one (i.e. 63.2) progresses smoothly; it can be understood: smooth progress in small matters, the one with a lower profile can progress smoothly, …… or亨小 slightly smooth progress.
2) 利貞,剛柔正而位當也: Yang and Yin are at their right and proper positions; therefore利貞, it is advantageous to persist in what has been achieved.
3) 初吉: at beginning good fortune; 柔得中也: Tenderness attains the middle position, like that which is explained in my last post of this thread.
4) 終止則亂; at the end disorder, 其道窮也: 道 (dao4) in Chinese can signify a road, a way, or a doctrine, and 窮 (giong2), destitute or exhausted. The text only says: disorder, i.e. not a failure.

Usually the hexagram text will premise the background or the conduct code of a hexagram, and its line texts will tell what happen in this hexagram or provide examples of six different occasions. Imo Hex 63 mainly suggests: A) Do not make big changes while every thing is perfect. B) A lengthy period of stability might lead to stalemate and recklessness in the face of crises. C) Ambitions and pride might follow success and result in failure. According to the sequence and its structure, Hex 63 also explicitly informs us that there is still a river needed to cross. Hex 63 and Hex 64 are interchangeable, mutually reversed and nuclear hexagrams, Hex 63 contains the possibility of failure and Hex 64 is with the hope of success.

Both Zhou Yi and ten wings were accomplished in the years of turmoil, therefore their advice always highlights how to avoid misfortune and pursue fortune, or to say more correctly, to pursue 無.咎: no fault or calamity. It is one of the reasons that I am inclined to make the above paraphrases.

Different paraphrases also exist in Chinese writings, for instance, 亨 smooth progress; 小利貞: only small benefit (remarks: 貞 is regarded as divination). At beginning good fortune but at the end disorder (since a move is made).

Regards
Tuck :bows:
 

rosada

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THE JUDGEMENT

AFTER COMPLETION. Success in small matters.
Perseverance furthers.
At the beginning good fortune,
At the end disorder.

COMMENTARY ON THE DECISION

"AFTER COMPLETION. Success." In small matters there is success.
"Perseverance furthers." The firm and the yielding are correct, and their places are the appropriate ones.
"At the beginning good fortune": the yielding has attained the middle.

If one stands still at the end, disorders arise, because the way comes to an end.

The ruler of the hexagram is the six in the second place; although weak, it has success because it stands in the relationship of correspondence to the strong nine in the fifth place.
Perseverance furthers because all the lines are in their appropriate places, and therefore any deviation brings misfortune. At the beginning all goes well, because the yielding six in the second place occupies the middle of the trigram Li, clarity. It is a time of very great cultural development and refinement. But when no further progress is possible, disorder necessarily arises, because the way cannot go on.
-Wilhelm
 
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maremaria

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Hi Tung,
Thank you for your explanations. What you say sounds really interesting. I’m open to hear new approaches but my limited experience regarding Yi ( I counts 2 ½ years) and my almost total ignorance about Zhou Yi + ten wings perhaps don’t let me understand you completely, although I wish I could .

From what I read at your post I gather that 63 doesn’t talk about a granted success but what to do in order to succeed how to do all those small tasks that will lead to the achievement of a goal .My minds understand better images than words so the image comes in my mind reading your post is of tightrope walking. It shas to do with crossing and balance . Not saying that it’s a representative image of 63 but that’s just what comes in my mind. Fell free to correct me if I didn't understood you.

Maria



 

ravenstar

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Hello Janice,

A interesting site where they put the enneagram numbers against each other.

The 3 is fire, the yin eye in the yang fish, and the 6 is water the yang eye in the yin fish.

Nigel Ricmond is desribing a very interesting diagram in one of his books about water and fire. In the I Ching oracle he is using this diagram.
nigelrichmond.jpg


Here we see the figure 8 and two cirkels. When we follow the 8 then there is only one line that is changing when we go from one trigram to the other. When we also go to water and fire then there are two cirkels. When we visit Li and Kan(fire and water) every time the polarity is changing.

He writes about 63 and 64; When taken in their most inner meaning these hexagrams represent enlightment. Here enlightment is taken to mean transition from identity which is seperate from the life energy(but uses it) to being one with that energy without seperate need. The state of being in the whole but yet aware is not imaginable while in the state of identity, there is too much fear of losing identity which is mistaken for losing our being.

Frank

Thanks Frank, this is all very interesting!

You mention "there is too much fear of losing identity which is mistaken for losing our being"

Aren't these fears created by cultural misunderstanding? Is this not what has veiled us from the truth.

And what is Enlightenment? Is it not experiencing the world as sacred, our humaness as sacred and myself and you as sacred? Isn't it about purifying our own experience , our own way as it happens every moment?

So many are on a great search for Enlightenment, and yet the enlightened Self is every present. How can you reach the Self, when you already are the Self.

As Sri Ramana Maharshi said....
"There is no reaching the Self. If the Self were to be reached, it would mean that the Self is not here and now, but that it has yet to be obtained. What is got afresh will also be lost. So it will be impermanent. What is not permanent is not worth striving for. So I say the Self is not reached. You are the Self; you are already that."

So what is enlightenment? Is it when you know that you are you? And that you in the deepest truth is a pure and nondual Spirit? Is it when we realize we never really die (because the Self is timeless) and we know we've always been here (because the Self is ever present)? We already know all this, it sits way in the back of our mind......but somewhere somehow this got all messed up.

Are we involved in some kind of evolutionary experiment? Is it a process? How do we break the trance we're in...forgetting who we are and being caught in in all the pain and distraction of human life? When will we stop playing hide and seek with the Self?

What's going to keep us from making huge mistakes as we continue to move away from organized religions to the disorder that we're in right now? Or are we going to make alot of mistakes so we will learn collectively as well as individually.

ravenstar
 

tuckchang

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If one stands still at the end, disorders arise, because the way comes to an end.

The ruler of the hexagram is the six in the second place.....

The text: 終亂 at the end disorder.
The judgment on the decision: 終止則 (ze2: and then) 亂 (luan4: disorder), 其道 (dao4: a road, a way, or a doctrine) 窮 (giong2: destitute or exhausted) 也.

終止則亂: 終止 (zhong1 zhi3) can be understood: 1) at the end as a phrase, or 2) 終 (zhong1): at the end, and 止 (zhong1 zhi3): to stop, as individual characters; 終止則亂 signifies 1) at the end, and then (it becomes) disorder, or 2) at the end (it) stops, and then it becomes disorder. I prefer item 1.
其道 (dao4) 窮 (giong2) 也 can be understood as: no road, no solution, or the principle (i.e. the norm, the conduct code….) of Ji Ji (Hex 63) is destitute while the hexagram reaches the end, like line 6 (the fox) ignoring the warning at position 1, the water of the river deluges its head when it reaches the end of Hex 63 but still in the river.

According to the analyses and classification of studying the I Ching, 63.2 is regarded as the founding line (because it creates Hex 63; it makes all the lines of Hex 63 stay at their appropriate positions; hence at the beginning good fortune as described in the hexagram text) and also the representative line (according to the rule of the minority leading the majority and in following the priority of the bottom trigram first, and then the upper trigram), which usually represents the spirit, the essence or the significance etc of a hexagram.

My understanding of line 2:
The text: A female loses the curtain of her cart; do not to chase it, (as) it will be retrieved in seven days.
In ancient times, the cart that the female took was outfitted with curtains in order to ensure privacy. The curtain is lost but do not chase it, signifying the cart remains still, although it still can move.
The curtain is gone but it will return to position 2 after it makes a cycle, from position 2 to the original position 2, 7 steps, signifying do not move, to wait for the right timing and the timing will come itself or eventually. The hexagram will become Hex 5 (Xu): to wait after this line is triggered and changes.

Confucian remarks (Xiang Zhuan 象傳): It will be retrieved in seven days by virtue of the principle of moderation (i.e. 中道 zhong1 dao4).
中道 zhong1 dao4, my paraphrase: neither radical nor conservative; ‘neither radical’ means not to be proud (after having successfully crossed the river) and move forth, while ‘nor conservative’ signifies not to be frozen; therefore 亨小 (the hexagram text: progress slightly smoothly) or 小者亨也 (the judgment on the decision: The small one, 63.2, progresses smoothly, or smooth progress in small matters, the one with a lower profile can progress smoothly…..) all suggests not to make big changes but small ones in order to maintain what has been achieved, Hex 63.

Indeed, the bottom trigram Li is symbolic of civilization and… which is created by 63.2, but the trigram Kan, the river and peril, is also created and it locates in the front. Hence maintaining Li and avoid Kan.

A hexagram usually composes of multiple concepts, from the perspectives in viewing its name and formation, the sequence, its texts, its images and the relationship between each line, as well as related hexagrams, etc. Every one gets his enlightenment from reading it with his life experiences; I just share my comprehension with you.

Regards
Tuck :bows:
 

tuckchang

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From what I read at your post I gather that 63 doesn’t talk about a granted success but what to do in order to succeed how to do all those small tasks that will lead to the achievement of a goal .My minds understand better images .........

Sometimes the best advice comes from Xiang Zhuan (象傳: Confucian commentary on the image): to contemplate potential crises and prevent them in advance from occurring.

To me and in short, hex 63 signifies success, but stagnation and declining follow in the wake of this success, one must be aware of this and maintain the success, as well as not be aggressive to make another success.

Please kindly understand: I am not a diviner, therefore from the perspective of divination, I don’t have sufficient experiences to give advice or counter-evidences to prove that my judgment is correct. In actuality and in my opinion, divination also depends on how you approach the I Ching, your database, the first link and so on. I can only provide my comprehension of studying the I Ching for your reference.

Regards
Tuck :bows:
 

elvis

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From what I read at your post I gather that 63 doesn’t talk about a granted success but what to do in order to succeed how to do all those small tasks that will lead to the achievement of a goal .My minds understand better images than words so the image comes in my mind reading your post is of tightrope walking. It shas to do with crossing and balance .

The focus covers the following of a 'correct' path - in the traditional material hexagram 63 is also representative of the nature of line positions.

The purpose or outcome of 63 is represented by analogy to the qualities of hexagram 02 - IOW the position of all is possible, a completion elicits a 'new' opening of potentials.

The beginning of hexagram 63 is described by analogy to the qualities of hexagram 39 - an establishment of a 'position' and so obstruction within the 'mindless flow'. This is the setting down of the first 'correct' step in the sequence that leads to completion.

The infrastructure of 63 is described by analogy to the qualities of hexagram 53 and so a focus on 'gradual development' andso the sense of 'maturing'.

We can use the I Ching in its language from to describe itself by reference to itself - each hexagram is describable through analogies to all of the other hexagrams and there is a formal methodology present to do such where that methodology is a property of recursion - recursion being how the hexagrams are formed from the yin/yang dichotomy.
 

rosada

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THE IMAGE

Water over fire: the image of the condition
In AFTER COMPLETION.
Thus the superior man
Takes thought of misfortune
And arms himself against it in advance.

When water in a kettle hangs over fire, the two elements stand in relation and thus generate energy (cf. the production of steam). But the resulting tension demands caution. If the water boils over, the fire is extinguished and its energy is lost. If the heat is too great, the water evaporates into the air. These elements here brought into relation and thus generating energy are by nature hostile to each other. Only the most extreme caution can prevent damage. In life too there are junctions when all forces are in balance and work in harmony, so that everything seems to be in the best of order. In such times only the sage recognizes the moments that bode danger and knows how to banish it by means of timely precautions.
-Wilhelm
 

fkegan

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Hex 63--When you have lost control and now must learn the consequences...

The word "success" is a difficult one in hex 63. This is the hexagram composed of focus upon half of the possible lines without any interest in the other half. In all ways this describes achieving what you have established as your goal without any notice or concern for all the consequences or collateral damage from your efforts.

The beginning (line 1) achieves its goal, but breaks the ice and gets its tail wet. No notice has been taken of the local structure or connections (line 2 open Yin).

The passions (line 3) fight for years to achieve its conquest; however the true results depend upon how that victory was won and who will be allowed to administer the new conquest. There is no plan or deep feelings behind this passionate conflict. (line 4 open Yin space).

The overall plan and organization (line 5) is to spend lots of resources on a massive public display of piety and religious zeal that is doomed since it is without any real involvement or interest in what will come next (line 6 open Yin space).

Overall, this is After Completion in the sense that what you have intended and done is history and what is coming into focus is the results and consequences you have unleashed without noticing them develop all along.

It is the archer who struts to the competition with the biggest and most sophisticated bow and has magnificent form as the impressive arrow is launched. However, no interest or attention was given to the target or what exactly the arrow was aimed at.
In current American TV it is the bold, innovative initiative to replace all the NBC 10 pm dramas with Jay Leno Show rather than invest in the difficult effort to find new programming that would succeed. NBC's goals of saving money and having a known profit were achieved. It was just the reaction of everyone else to this that was ignored and therefore caused all sorts of trouble.

Hex 63 is a cautionary tale of getting your way for now--a small matter-- and having to pay greatly as the timing plays out and you fully reap what you so negligently sowed.

Each of the lines has serious consequences becoming more dire the longer things go before the change begins to force awareness of your mistakes. In the first line it is just a sloppy achievement of the finish line. By the last line you have fallen into the great river you were trying to cross.

Frank
 

charly

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...Of all the kinds of joy, non perhaps is so pure as that occasioned by sudden insight." Robert Grudin...

The beginning of Hex 63 seems to be the climax ... a person's 15 minutes of fame, which can go as rapidly as it came...
So from life and from death, comes the promise of rebirth ...
SO, by preparing a new vessel with new beliefs, new attitudes, excercises, etc. we allow the revitalized water to flow again.
Janice:

Let us imagine that there were not only profanity filters but also filters for words that are not curse, say virtuous words, the effect should be as follows:
Of all the kinds of joy, non perhaps is so **** as that occasioned by sudden *******."

It reminds me a poem by Chang Heng:
we can practise all the variegated postures,
Those that an ordinary husband has but rarely seen,
Such as taught by T’ien lao to theYellow Emperor,
No joy shall be equal to the delights of this first night,
These shall never be forgotten, however old we may grow.

Chang Heng (AD 78^139), poet and scientific
Quoted at: http://media.wiley.com/product_data/excerpt/04/04708488/0470848804.pdf
an excerp from a novel about the last chinese empress.

About this poem an article by All-China Women's Federation 2008/8/14 says:

Zhang Heng in the Eastern Han Dynasty (25 - 220), ... wrote a poem about the mood of a man and a woman on their wedding day from the woman’s perspective. This poem was highly appraised in later ages. It was considered lovely, but not dirty.

The first part of this long poem is filled with foreshadowing. But after that it moves onto the main subject of the couple’s first encounter, from removing their makeup and costume to spreading the dowry painting on the bed and imitating those acts which interest them.

The happiest time of one’s life is the pleasurable time tonight, and this feeling will not be forgotten even in old age.

We can see that this long poem not only describes the dowry painting, but also describes the joyous time of making love on the wedding day.

From: http://www.womenofchina.cn/Lifestyle/Customs/205680.jsp

Maybe H.63 is about making love instead of war, among many other things, of course. Where the chinese text says YET FORDED or YET CROSSED (the river?) Wilhelm used a german word that means COMPLETION (preferred by Baynes) and CONSUMATION (preferred by Vogelman), maybe the second has more sexual connotation (1).

Yours,

Charly

(1) must be said that both translated from the german, they only wanted to give an accurate version of Wilhelm's version without any comparison with the chinese sources.
 

pantherpanther

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....So what is enlightenment? Is it when you know that you are you? And that you in the deepest truth is a pure and nondual Spirit? Is it when we realize we never really die (because the Self is timeless) and we know we've always been here (because the Self is ever present)? We already know all this, it sits way in the back of our mind......but somewhere somehow this got all messed up.

Are we involved in some kind of evolutionary experiment? Is it a process? How do we break the trance we're in...forgetting who we are and being caught in in all the pain and distraction of human life? When will we stop playing hide and seek with the Self?

What's going to keep us from making huge mistakes as we continue to move away from organized religions to the disorder that we're in right now? Or are we going to make al ot of mistakes so we will learn collectively as well as individually.

ravenstar

Enlightenment begins in the body not the mind. It is an individual matter, that is, it requires learning how one's body works and how to use it rightly. The process that leads toward Enlightenment will become clear.

"This body of ours is something like an electric battery in which a mysterious power latently lies. When this power is not properly brought into operation, it either grows mouldy and withers away or is warped and expresses itself abnormally."
D T Suzuki

http://www.randomhouse.com/catalog/display.pperl?isbn=9780385483490&view=excerpt
 

rosada

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In one aspect, fire and water counteract each other, whereby an equilibrium is created; in another aspect however, fear of a collapse is also suggested. If the water escapes, the fire goes out; if the flames high, the water dries up.

Hence precautionary measures are necessary.

The trigram K'an suggests danger and disaster. Li suggests clarity, foresight. The taking thought occurs in the heart, the arming in external actions. The danger still lurks unseen, hence only reflection enables one to perceive it in time and thus avert it.
-Wilhelm
 

tuckchang

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濟 (Ji4) of 既濟 (Ji4 Ji4) in Chinese also signifies 'to relieve or to aid', sometimes 既濟 (Ji4 Ji4) can be interpreted as: having already been relieved or have already aided.

The masculine lines of Qian and the feminine lines of Kun mingle with one another and form Ji Ji, like Hex 11 (Tai) converting into Ji Ji. Qian signifies creativeness, a founder or a leader, and Confucian highlights its perseverance as the one of the sky, and elaborates how the founder or the leader should perform with perseverance. As for Hex 2 (Kun), Confucian highlights its submissiveness, like the one an assistance or a follower, and elaborate how the assistant or the follower should perform with submissiveness. The masculine line and the feminine line occupy their appropriate positions, amicably neighbor and correlate with one another after Ji Ji (Hex 63) is formed, which also create Li: fire, and Kan: water.

Fire is too dry and hot, while water is too wet and cold. Water and fire mingle with each other, like the inner trigrams of Ji Ji (i.e. lines 2 to 4, and lines 3 to 5) and reach balance (i.e. to be relieved) but they might terminate each other as well; there exists a risk but also a buff zine if both of them act according to their designated roles, like water tending flow downward, while flames blazing upwards.
Water is on the top and fire heats it form the bottom; as long as they do invade each other but they keep a clear distance, like the bottom and the upper trigram; they can coexist and generate steam and power (i.e. to aid).

Regards
Tuck :bows:
 

ravenstar

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Charly, pantherpanther, rodaki and tuckchang, all your posts are quite enlightening!

Charly wrote - Zhang Heng in the Eastern Han Dynasty (25 - 220), ... wrote a poem about the mood of a man and a woman on their wedding day from the woman’s perspective. This poem was highly appraised in later ages. It was considered lovely, but not dirty.

Charly, your post speak of lovemaking not just about procreation, or survival of the fittest, it is a sacred inner journey. Perhaps, it is a threshold between the worlds, a place where we can touch upon the source of life itself.....a place where a couple connects to something bigger than themselves....everything is aligned for that moment...you're exactly where you're supposed to be and life pours in for those few seconds giving you a chance to look at it and see it happening.

rodaki's powerful image of Make Love Not War flows with your post and reminds me of the Sexual Revolution.

pantherpanther wrote - Enlightenment begins in the body not the mind. It is an individual matter, that is, it requires learning how one's body works and how to use it rightly. The process that leads toward Enlightenment will become clear.

"This body of ours is something like an electric battery in which a mysterious power latently lies. When this power is not properly brought into operation, it either grows mouldy and withers away or is warped and expresses itself abnormally."
D T Suzuki

pantherpanther what a powerful message. I could respond to you in pages!! Indeed if enlightenment begins in the body, then we still have such a long way to go. The overall health of the people of this planet isn't good at all.....reversing the effects collectively, individually, spiritually, is a long journey in itself! It's not like waking up one morning and we all suddenly have a new identity and face. That's just the outer surface, it doesn't include the inner one.

This is an interesting quote that seems to put Suzuki's ideals into action.....and tuchchang's steam and power.

"The belief in old age began to take hold of me when I was nearing the half-century mark. I began to get wrinkled and gray, my knees tottered and a great weakness came over me.....I spend hours and hours silently affirming my unity with the infinite energy of the one true God. I associated with the young.....In this way I switched the old age current of thoughts. Then I went deep down within my body and talked to the inner life centers. I told them with firmness and decision that I would never submit to the old age devil, that I was determined never to give in. Gradually, I felt a new life current coming up from the life center. It was a faint little stream growing strong by leaps and bounds. My cheeks have filled out, the wrinkles and crow's feet are gone, and I actually feel like the boy that I am." Charles Fillmore

ravenstar
 
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fkegan

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Hex 63--after you have slipped on the banana peel but before you fall...

Hex 63 represents a dynamic where everything you notice or are attending to is at least balanced by what you are ignoring and completely clueless about. Therefore, all counsel is directed to the need to notice these other aspects before your errors and omissions become truly difficult or the other things going on totally overwhelm everything and anything you have tried to complete.

The situation of hex 63 is an abstract symbolism independent of the specifics involved. Whatever you have achieved or completed whether searching for enlightenment or achieving intimate relations or combining powerful elements you have so far done with only your own interests, intents and actions in mind which might well be described as half-baked, half-assed or just self-centered.

Now that you have already completed your unfortunate actions, it is now After-- when what has been set loose is now about to be felt in the backlash, what you sowed is ripening toward its harvest and all attention needs to be focused upon making those changes that will limit the disaster and salvage as much as possible.

Frank
 

rosada

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I think you're making it a bit extreme, Frank! Well, maybe what you say is true, but I don't think the 63 moment of recognizing the Dark Side need necessarily trigger despair. My experience of 63 so far has been more of a sense of recognizing how my outer world is indeed a reflection of my inner world and perhaps particularly being aware that what I don't like in others is really a reflection about what I don't like in myself. But after that harsh revelation I am also feeling happy because when you have these moments where it all comes together and you're able to see the good, the bad and the ugly, there's also a feeling of encouragement. Kinda like finding out there is no Santa Claus : you're sad but also you feel you've somehow grown up.

-rosada
 
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meng

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A hypothetical dude sets out to cross a dangerous river. He fashions a canoe and a paddle. His paddle breaks when he's halfway across, and rather than do everything he could to keep moving toward the other shore, he freaks over the broken paddle.

Takes thought of misfortune
And arms himself against it in advance.
He shoulda made a spare paddle, cuz..
At the beginning good fortune.
At the end disorder.
He's up the creek without a paddle.
 
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my_key

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It's interesting seeing all the different takes here on 63. One more woth adding to the fire are th comments made by Thomas Cleary in the Taoist I Ching. He calls 63 Settled and says it means that a matter is already settled.
The view expressed is that this hexagram is very much one of celestial and earthly balance, that their interaction has completed. Removing the conditional behaviours/ thoughts and aligning with the true self. The problems can arise because "Unless one is very careful one is likely to slip , and illumination, having culminated, will turn to darkness; the mind of Tao again obscured, the human mentality again arises, and in the middle of settlement and completion thare is unsettling and incompleteness."
So "if one nurtures illumination early on,even if there is danger, there is no peril. That the end is confused means that if you use clarity excessively, you invite danger where there is none"

Mike
 

Trojina

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Hex 63 represents a dynamic where everything you notice or are attending to is at least balanced by what you are ignoring and completely clueless about. Therefore, all counsel is directed to the need to notice these other aspects before your errors and omissions become truly difficult or the other things going on totally overwhelm everything and anything you have tried to complete.

The situation of hex 63 is an abstract symbolism independent of the specifics involved. Whatever you have achieved or completed whether searching for enlightenment or achieving intimate relations or combining powerful elements you have so far done with only your own interests, intents and actions in mind which might well be described as half-baked, half-assed or just self-centered.

Now that you have already completed your unfortunate actions, it is now After-- when what has been set loose is now about to be felt in the backlash, what you sowed is ripening toward its harvest and all attention needs to be focused upon making those changes that will limit the disaster and salvage as much as possible.

Frank

I think this, underlined is worth repeating. hex 63 will only be about enlightenment if you ask a question about enlightenment. i don't think in and of itself it signifies enlightenment. Each hexagram is an abstract principle, a point in the circle..we could be anywhere in that circle when enlightenment hits :eek: we could be in a 41 day or 54 day,...anywhere.


"A line means what a good question wants it to mean" said Lloyd over in shared readings. absolutely brilliant...!

just wondering why so much focus is being put on enlightenment in the thread. I'd go with Franks view...well maybe a shade lighter :cool:
 
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rosada

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Thanks for putting together the "arms himself in advance" with "up the creek without a paddle," meng, that is a helpful memory aid as well as analysis :).

I also appreciate Mike's comment that too much clarity can invite problems where there are none. At our house I just turn my paycheck over to my husband and he handles the finances. Recently I got a small bonus and my husband's comment was,"Oh wonderful, now we can pay..." a bill I had been totally unaware of! So now I've got greater clarity but it hasn't necessarily made me feel better...:eek:

As to why this hexagram has sparked so much talk about enlightenment..I dunno, so I just want to say "Hi Trojan!":p

People may have noticed I've been dragging my feet about posting 63.1. I've been thinking how 63 represents the Perfect Moment so I have been reluctant to move on :rolleyes:. But I'm going to post it this afternoon...
-rosada
 
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pantherpanther

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Charly, pantherpanther, rodaki and tuckchang, all your posts are quite enlightening!...

pantherpanther what a powerful message. I could respond to you in pages!! Indeed if enlightenment begins in the body, then we still have such a long way to go. The overall health of the people of this planet isn't good at all.....reversing the effects collectively, individually, spiritually, is a long journey in itself! It's not like waking up one morning and we all suddenly have a new identity and face. That's just the outer surface, it doesn't include the inner one.

This is an interesting quote that seems to put Suzuki's ideals into action.....and tuchchang's steam and power.

"The belief in old age began to take hold of me when I was nearing the half-century mark. I began to get wrinkled and gray, my knees tottered and a great weakness came over me.....I spend hours and hours silently affirming my unity with the infinite energy of the one true God. I associated with the young.....In this way I switched the old age current of thoughts. Then I went deep down within my body and talked to the inner life centers. I told them with firmness and decision that I would never submit to the old age devil, that I was determined never to give in. Gradually, I felt a new life current coming up from the life center. It was a faint little stream growing strong by leaps and bounds. My cheeks have filled out, the wrinkles and crow's feet are gone, and I actually feel like the boy that I am." Charles Fillmore

ravenstar

Fascinating quote from Charles Fillmore. D. T. Suzuki's perspective is more traditional, although Fillmore put into practice somewhat similar principles and achieved real results. What is "the body"? The traditional view is that the body is what is called in the Bible , the natural man , also referred to as "dust," and "fallen,unredeemed." For the Buddhists , the vehicle, and so on. Suzuki speaks of the possibility of developing the "Third Eye" through right discipline of the body,that is the ordinary state of awareness most live in in the world. An individual matter, although guidance is necessary for almost everyone, at least for a time. From the perspective of evolution, human beings are incomplete yet have the potential of becoming so. "Enlightenments" may be temporal experiences on the path toward completion. tuchchang's steam and power on Hexagram 63 seems relevant.

http://www.randomhouse.com/catalog/display.pperl?isbn=9780385483490&view=excerpt

When we are full of vitality and not yet awakened to the knowledge of life, we cannot comprehend the seriousness of all the conflicts involved in it which are apparently for the moment in a state of quiescence. But sooner or later the time will come when we have to face life squarely and solve its most perplexing and most pressing riddles. Says Confucius, "At fifteen my mind was directed to study, and at thirty I knew where to stand." This is one of the wisest sayings of the Chinese sage. Psychologists will all agree to this statement of his; for, generally speaking, fifteen is about the age youth begins to look around seriously and inquire into the meaning of life. All the spiritual powers until now securely hidden in the subconscious part of the mind break out almost simultaneously. And when this breaking out is too precipitous and violent, the mind may lose its balance more or less permanently; in fact, so many cases of nervous prostration reported during adolescence are chiefly due to this loss of the mental equilibrium. In most cases the effect is not very grave and the crisis may pass without leaving deep marks. But in some characters, either through their inherent tendencies or on account of the influence of environment upon their plastic constitution, the spiritual awakening stirs them up to the very depths of their personality. This is the time you will be asked to choose between the "Everlasting No" and the "Everlasting Yea." This choosing is what Confucius means by "study"; it is not studying the classics, but deeply delving into the mysteries of life.

Normally, the outcome of the struggle is the "Everlasting Yea," or "Let thy will be done"; for life is after all a form of affirmation, however negatively it might be conceived by the pessimists. But we cannot deny the fact that there are many things in this world which will turn our too sensitive minds towards the other direction and make us exclaim with Andreyev in "The Life of Man": "I curse everything that you have given. I curse the day on which I was born. I curse the day on which I shall die. I curse the whole of my life. I fling everything back at your cruel face, senseless Fate! Be accursed, be forever accursed! With my curses I conquer you. What else can you do to me? . . . With my last thought I will shout into your asinine ears: Be accursed, be accursed!" This is a terrible indictment of life, it is a complete negation of life, it is a most dismal picture of the destiny of man on earth. "Leaving no trace" is quite true, for we know nothing of our future except that we all pass away, including the very earth from which we have come. There are certainly things justifying pessimism.
...

For the more you suffer the deeper grows your character, and with the deepening of your character you read the more penetratingly into the secrets of life. All great artists, all great religious leaders, and all great social reformers have come out of the intensest struggles which they fought bravely, quite frequently in tears and with bleeding hearts. Unless you eat your bread in sorrow, you cannot taste of real life. Mencius is right when he says that when Heaven wants to perfect a great man it tries him in every possible way until he comes out triumphantly from all his painful experiences.
 
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Trojina

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As to why this hexagram has sparked so much talk about enlightenment..I dunno, so I just want to say "Hi Trojan!":p

-rosada

hi Rosada, i think its because people just automatically associate 63, the word 'completion' with enlightenment even though it doesn't say that in any translation i can think of...goes to have a look. Maybe its another case of hanging too much on the hexagram title in English
 
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em ching

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To be very mundane about it I lost count of the times i got 63 unchanging regarding purchases that seemed perfect to me that I asked about before splashing the cash. Taking the answer as basically 'yup done deal', going ahead with the purchase and it indeed being a very good purchase that meets my needs perfectly I take the 'reversion to disorder' in those instances the simple fact that these items will inevitably in time either wear out, break or no longer suit my needs. They were perfect on the day of purchase...from that time on they will be constantly reverting to disorder....a bit like the human body...er past the age of er...;) Everything works perfectly at 25, maybe a few things are a bit worn by age 65. The law of entropy ? Not as in 18...cos i am straying to 18 territory..but i think 63 is the moment of all being well as it is and the 'revert to disorder' is just a reminder it won't always be, hex 64 is just down the road.!

Hi,

I too recently got 63 (33 > 63) when asking about a purchase. I initially thought done deal- but also had the feeling that it was one I should retreat from. However I bought it and lo and behold, it's actually not much better than my last camera (battery life issues) and is actually a step down.. but luckily my mum wants a new camera as I don;t think they'd take it back now as it was on sale. And I'm going to try and revive my old camera with lithium batteries, and I've still got an affection for it... Bit annoying, in a way at that time, because I thought it'd be easier to just get it, I didn't bother shopping around, and when I got such a direct sign from the Yi saying think again, I suppose I rebelled... (I also got 29.1 re the purchase)...

hmm :rolleyes:
 

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... Charly, your post speak of lovemaking not just about procreation, or survival of the fittest, it is a sacred inner journey. Perhaps, it is a threshold between the worlds, a place where we can touch upon the source of life itself.....a place where a couple connects to something bigger than themselves....everything is aligned for that moment...you're exactly where you're supposed to be and life pours in for those few seconds giving you a chance to look at it and see it happening...
ravenstar
Hi, Janice:
Of course. Maybe the main association comes from the translation of Ji Ji. But the literal meaning ALREADY CROSSED reminds the ancient customs of peasant marriage. After crossing the stream began youngs mating. The communal rite was in springtime. If in autumn the girl was pregnant the mate married. Without pregnancy there were no marriage. Then the result was uncertain at the time of consummation.

Rutt says:
The mating theme is also present applying perhaps to the custom of mating couples wading through the stream as a lustratory rite in the spring ceremonies of the common people... That there was an amatory connotation to crossing a stream, lifting the skirts and making love is made clear in Ode 87...
R. Rutt: page 356

W/B in uppercase. Conserving the Harvard Yenching's parsing:

ji4: already / AFTER
ji4: cross / wade / ferry / COMPLETION
heng1: sacrifice / ceremony / feast / joy / prosperous / SUCCESS
xiao3: little / small / tiny / few / young / [IN] SMALL [MATTERS] (1)

li4: benefit / profit / profitable / FURTHERS
zhen1: divination / omen / chastity / PERSEVERANCE

chu1: at first / (at the) beginning / first / [AT THE] BEGINING
ji2: fortunate / lucky / GOOD FORTUNE

zhong1: end / finish / [AT THE] END
luan4: in confusion / disorderly / DISSORDER (2)


An alternative version:

YET CROSSED
After crossing the stream.
When the conditions are given.

FEAST LITTLE
Celebrate a little, do the Little Feast,
not the whole ceremony but the core, the main part.

PROFITABLE OMEN
Foreseeable good.

BEGINS LUCKY
The start is lucky.

END FUZZY
The end is uncertain.

Say, lucky but dangerous.

Yours,

Charly

_____________________________________
(1) matter / thing / affair occurs more or less ten times in the yi. Two times occurs 小事 small matters (H.58 & H.62), why not to be explicit now?

(2) means CONFUSSION but has also some discomfortable meanings like MAKING TROUBLE, DISSORDER, REVOLT, REBELLION, CHAOS, ANARCHY, TO COMMIT INCEST
 

Trojina

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Hi,

I too recently got 63 (33 > 63) when asking about a purchase. I initially thought done deal- but also had the feeling that it was one I should retreat from. However I bought it and lo and behold, it's actually not much better than my last camera (battery life issues) and is actually a step down.. but luckily my mum wants a new camera as I don;t think they'd take it back now as it was on sale. And I'm going to try and revive my old camera with lithium batteries, and I've still got an affection for it... Bit annoying, in a way at that time, because I thought it'd be easier to just get it, I didn't bother shopping around, and when I got such a direct sign from the Yi saying think again, I suppose I rebelled... (I also got 29.1 re the purchase)...

hmm :rolleyes:

i was referring to 63 unchanging..as primary hexagram not relating.
 

em ching

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Oh ok.
I just thought I'd mention it as I received 63 in relation to a purchase.
Although I suppose as it said retreat first, that was saying it wasn't as perfect as the equilibreum of 63 is meant to be. So it was saying this isn't a balanced purchase, whereas unchanging might suggest that it's the best you can get for now, but don't expect it to remain in the best condition forever ('the finest clothes turn to rags')...
 

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THE LINES

Nine at the beginning means:
He breaks his wheels.
He gets his tail wet in the water.
No blame.

In times following a great transition, everything is pressing forward, striving in the direction of development and progress. But this pressing forward at the beginning is not good; it overshoots the mark and leads with certainty to loss and collapse. Therefore a man of strong character does not allow himself to be infected by the general intoxication but checks his course in time. He may indeed not remain altogether untouched by the disastrous consequences of the general pressure, but he is hit only from behind like a fox that, having crossed the water, at the last minute gets its tail wet, He will not suffer any real harm, because his behavior has been correct.
-Wilhelm
 

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