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63. Chi Chi / After Completion

rosada

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Hmm.. Do I see a trend forming?

63.1 Bug dies going through the windshield.

Next lifetime...

63.2 Windshield gets stolen.
 
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charly

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... This allows us to associate the comb with
the feminine principle, as we have already associated the sword with the masculine...
Dear Diamanda:

I always believed that it was the HAIR more than the comb. But of course, the mine is a male point of view.

Lo: All this trouble for a comb?
Jen Yu: It's mine. It means a lot to me. A barbarian like you wouldn't understand.

From Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon


crouching2.jpg



Yours,

Charly

P.D.
http://michelleyeoh.info/Movie/Ch/love1.html

http://www.script-o-rama.com/movie_scripts/c/crouching-tiger-hidden-dragon-script.html
 
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charly

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... Now we are given the example of a woman losing a small thing to illustrate it doesn't matter if the actual loss is minor or life threatening. The point is there is an appropriate way to handle such a situation. The I Ching is counseling us here that when we feel robbed or mistreated or for some reason feel we have lost the protection of those we rely on, we need not look outside ourselves to return to us that which is ours...
Rosada:

I believe that the Yi is not advicing a woman what to do if she loses a small thing.

First the hairpin was not a little thing for a chinese woman of ancient times. (1)

Second, the YI always advices us. Small thing maybe will never be found even in more than seven days. Would the YI risk giving a so short time verifiable prognostication?.

The YI is not telling us that the woman goes to find the blind, the veil or the hairpin, but that if we know how to behave, we can get in short time the main object of our desire. In men´s case, the woman, even more a woman that have lost her composure. (2)

Lady missing her hairpin (say, her composure) do not pursue. Seven days got.

Got what? maybe the composure, after passion, composure always return.

This is not the sort of advice that should be given by a philosopher or a moralist, but the diviners for whom the book was written had another interests.

Yours,

Charly

__________________________
(1) Think you were a chinese woman, your husband came back home and finds you without your hairpin... Imagine the effect on him. Another example, imagine you were with your lover talking about art, music or philosophy, reclined no matters where. Then you quit your hairpin, throwing it without paying attention and begin to loose your hair... The hairpin is not a little detail.
 

Trojina

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Hmm.. Do I see a trend forming?

63.1 Bug dies going through the windshield.

Next lifetime...

63.2 Windshield gets stolen.

I got 63.2 (and 63.4) several times when asking about the pneumonia i had last year, discussed it on CC. I'm thinking in that case it was centring around the vulnerabilty/exposure of illness..its just your use of the word 'bug' reminded me of my bug i had back then lol, my shield was down and a bug got in.
 

rosada

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63.3
Nine in the third place means:
The Illustrious Ancestor
Disciplines the Devil's country.
After three years he conquers it.
Inferior people must not be employed.

"Illustrious Ancestor" is the dynastic title of the Emperor Wu Ting of the Yin dynasty. After putting his realm in order with a strong hand, he waged long colonial wars for the subjection of the Huns who occupied the northern borderland with constant threat of incursions.

The situation described is as follows.

After times of completion, when a new power has arisen and everything within the country has been set in order, a period of colonial expansion almost inevitably follows.

Then as a rule long-drawn-out struggles must be reckoned with. For this reason, a correct colonial policy is especially important.

The territory won at such bitter cost must not be regarded as an almshouse for people who have made themselves impossible at home, but who are thought to be quite good enough for the colonies.

Such a policy ruins at the outset any chance of success.

This holds true in small as well as in large matters, because it is not only rising states that carry on a colonial policy; the urge to expand, with its accompanying dangers, is part and parcel of every ambitious undertaking.
-Wilhelm
 

fkegan

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HI Frank
Hex 63 for me is working mostly up in the spiritual realms, where perhaps we don't have to do anything. We will become illumined as to the error of our ways without having to go looking for it.
Sure we've spilt some milk and there is absolutely no point in crying about it. Indeed in the way we connect with things ,we may not have even noticed that our actions have spilt some milk and as you say the consequences may not be something we are aware of.

But at some point we are going to realise what the hell we've done - that curtain has been whisked away. The milk has been spilt and now we see the error of our ways and the consequences. Now we can hang onto the old view or we can let that go and by working on ourself we are able to self right.
I'm not sure that I've said that one has to ignore the problem, but if I have then I stand corrected as that is not what I see here. Action has to be taken at the right time, this may be internal action or indeed external action, but some action is needed. This action should be embraced as after all you are getting an upgrade.

I'm not sure if this brings our views any closer.
Also I'd be keen to hear you expand on why action by others is necessary to resolve the problem here.

Mike


Hi Mike,

These final two hexagrams 63 and 64 are all about focusing upon some things rather than others. In hex 63 the focus is upon your own actions (odd-numbered lines) and not upon the following even-numbered lines or the results or consequences of your actions.

Hex 64 is about attending to everything following with your own actions open to correction. This is far more hopeful, though if your own actions aren't the best the results can still turn out badly.

Consequences or results do not have to be other people they are just After Completion of your actions. So it isn't that you spilled milk, rather you either put the milk jug on your head while daydreaming of how you will spend the money for selling the milk or you didn't notice where you left the milk bottle---the milk spilling would the the results or consequence of your actions and your lack of attention to consequences.

What you do when you finally are obliged to confront the consequences would be more about the resultant hexagram than about anything within hex 63. The individual lines each give a time frame of how long it will take to recover from your consequences. Line 1 is where you might have spilled the milk bottle after pouring it into your glass or cereal bowl. The spilled milk is immediately apparent in line 1 and you go right on to clean it up. For line 2, the time frame is not so immediate, it will take a week to get this kerfuffle corrected. Continuing the milk metaphor, you would have left the milk bottle out of the frig all day. It didn't spill but it did spoil and you will need to throw it out and go off to buy a new bottle another day. Hex 63.2>>5 so the consequences after you thought you had achieved your goal will require waiting for the weather to change from cloudy to actual rain or more generally from thinking only of your own actions and schedule to realizing you need to wait on the whole process to develop.

In line 3, to keep up with the thread, the time frame is now a matter of years with all the uncertainties and complications of having rushed off to start a colonial war like the invasion of Iraq before any thought of the consequences or ramifications. Hex 63.3>>3 or the spring rains have begun the growing season and the full implications will depend upon the results of the harvest or if your inattention has launched a war instead of planting the crops, the spring rain may bring floods, erosion and long term famine as your consequences.

Frank
 

ravenstar

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QUOTE=charly;105267]Rosada:

I believe that the Yi is not advicing a woman what to do if she loses a small thing.

First the hairpin was not a little thing for a chinese woman of ancient times. (1)

Second, the YI always advices us. Small thing maybe will never be found even in more than seven days. Would the YI risk giving a so short time verifiable prognostication?.

The YI is not telling us that the woman goes to find the blind, the veil or the hairpin, but that if we know how to behave, we can get in short time the main object of our desire. In men´s case, the woman, even more a woman that have lost her composure. (2)

Lady missing her hairpin (say, her composure) do not pursue. Seven days got.

Got what? maybe the composure, after passion, composure always return.

This is not the sort of advice that should be given by a philosopher or a moralist, but the diviners for whom the book was written had another interests.

Yours,

Charly

__________________________
(1) Think you were a chinese woman, your husband came back home and finds you without your hairpin... Imagine the effect on him. Another example, imagine you were with your lover talking about art, music or philosophy, reclined no matters where. Then you quit your hairpin, throwing it without paying attention and begin to loose your hair... The hairpin is not a little detail.[/QUOTE]

Hi Charly!!

When I read your post yesterday, my mind kept circling around the Number Seven. So I thought I'd share a tad on what I know of this number.

7 is the number of spirituality, mysticism, wisdom and success. God made the world in 6 days and rested on the 7th. If you look at the 7 it turns its back on the upcoming numbers, instead it looks back in retrospect on all the lessons it has learned in 1 through 6. So by resting we build up our energy for the work we do in 8. When we relax we become like a sponge and draw in energy around us. 7 is always seeking perfection found in 10. 8' is balanced, enclosed, self contained power. When 'relaxed' it has good judgment and alot of common sense. It is also the number of resurrection and of spirit and matter. light and darkness, as above so below.

The trigram for seven-metal is the Joyous Lake (Tui). Like a calm, cool lake it is characterized by a gentle calm exterior and a strong, deep interior. If the lake becomes turbulent then things become distorted. The lake needs to calm down (meditate, deep breathing, walking), then the relfection on the surface can be looked at, studied and understood.

"People who give themselves time to drink from their own depths can experience a lasting sense of joy." Bob Sachs
Also, if we add the first seven digits 1,2,3,4,5,6,7, equals 28. This number reduces to 10, the number of unity. The 2 is the peacemaker and the 8 is good judgement. 28 in numerology is known as 'the breaking number'. New experiences always seem to be in store when it comes up, surprises and unlimited opportunities too. That's because 2 + 8 = 10 new beginnings.

We live in a paradox world where things are divided. daynight. hot/cold, right/wrong, etc. We are always cocreating with our spiritual source. We have free will and yet we aren't in control?? When we are intent to find something, we will only get it after we have released our need to have it.

ravenstar
 

tuckchang

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63.3

To drag back the overshooting, and the curtain returns with one’s own consciousness and inner cultivation, here line 3 reaches the top of brightness, the trigram Li, but also the turning point form Li to Kan: peril.

Line 3:
The text: Gao Zong attacked Gui Fang, (and) conquered it in three years; the villain should not be employed.
Confucian commentary on the image: To conquer in three years; (the country was) dead tired.

Gao Zong (named 武丁 Wu Ding) was the twenty-second ruler of the Shang dynasty, and Gui Fang (鬼方) was a disobedient tribe; King Gao Zong succeeded in conquering Gui Fang after three years battling. The line reaches position 3, the top of the bottom trigram Li which is symbolic of brightness, civilization and …. as well as the war (as Li represents the armor and the weapon, according to Shuo Gua Zhuan 說卦傳 (the commentary on the trigram)), but the country was exhausted and the line is approaching the upper trigram Kan: peril. Here is the turning point from Li to Kan; he must maintain all that have been achieved and avoid disorder from occurring (or occurring again), i.e. not to employ the villain.
‘Gao Zong attacked Gui Fang, and conquered it in three years’ can be also understood that he wins when the line reaches position 5, since the inner upper trigram (from line 3 to 5) is Li, and the upper trigram is Kan.

It is alleged that King Gao Zong had more than 60 wives, incl. three queens. 婦好 (Fu Hao) was one of the queens and a brave marshal as well. I would like to invite you to have a tour to Shang’s antiques at the tomb of Fu Hao, which is the only tomb of the Shang’s royals found completely intact up to now. It is pity that the presentation is only available in Chinese. I brief as follows:
Fu Hao died approx. 1200 B.C. at the age of 33, most likely because of a relapse of an old wound or dystocia. Her tomb was found in 1976 at Anyang (安陽) of He Nan (河南) province, where Yinxu (殷墟: the ruins of the Shang dynasty) locates. It is a rather small tomb (20 square meter) and was sited near the palace instead of the royal cemetery park, which proves how much King Gao Zong cherished her, and which is the reason of why the tomb having not been robbed. Both jade ornaments or collections for the female and bronze battle-ax were found in the tomb; people had wondered the gender of the person buried there, till the engravings of 婦好 on the bronze articles were read, which links to hundreds of records on the oracle-bone-script, found earlier in 1936 at Yinxu and describing that Fu Hao had led her troops physically on the battlefield more than twenties times to assist King Goa Zong on conquering the rebellious tribes.

The hexagram will become Zhun: difficult to initiate (3), if this line changes. The text of the hexagram Zhun: great and smooth progress; it is advantageous (or appropriate) to persist; do not take action to go somewhere; it is advantageous (or appropriate) to establish a ducal state, which somehow explains what King Gao Zong had done.
However I would like to add the following: Zhun signifies difficult to initiate; from the perspective of the hexagram Qian and Kun just mating, it is difficulty in giving birth, while from the standpoint of the hexagram Zhun, it is the difficulty of being given birth. The advice of the hexagram text: to establish a ducal state, should be understood as: to enhance oneself and collect momentum, since it must make a breakthrough, otherwise one will perish, as per the text of line 6 stating: crying nonstop with bloody tears, and the commentary on its image: Crying nonstop with bloody tears; how can it last long? i.e. for the assigned mission and the last stroke to attain success, since if this line can make a change, the hexagram will become Yi1: to enrich (42), the text of which advises that it is instrumental in going somewhere, and it is instrumental in crossing the great river.

Regards
Tuck :bows:
 

rosada

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63.3
Nine in the third place:

a)
The Illustrious Ancestor
Disciplines the Devil's Country.
After three years he conquers it.
Inferior people must not be employed.

b)
"After three years he conquers it." This is exhausting.

Li means weapons. The Devil's country is the territory of the Huns in the north. North is the direction of K'an. This line is in the middle of the nuclear trigram K'an. It is a strong line in a strong place. "The Illustrious Ancestor" is the dynastic title of Wu Ting, the emperor who gave a new impetus to the Yin dynasty. The warning against employing inferior people is suggested by the secret relationship of this line to the weak six at the top.
-Wilhelm
 

frank_r

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QUOTE=charly;105267]Hi Charly!!

When I read your post yesterday, my mind kept circling around the Number Seven. So I thought I'd share a tad on what I know of this number.

7 is the number of spirituality, mysticism, wisdom and success. God made the world in 6 days and rested on the 7th. If you look at the 7 it turns its back on the upcoming numbers, instead it looks back in retrospect on all the lessons it has learned in 1 through 6. So by resting we build up our energy for the work we do in 8. When we relax we become like a sponge and draw in energy around us. 7 is always seeking perfection found in 10. 8' is balanced, enclosed, self contained power. When 'relaxed' it has good judgment and alot of common sense. It is also the number of resurrection and of spirit and matter. light and darkness, as above so below.

The trigram for seven-metal is the Joyous Lake (Tui). Like a calm, cool lake it is characterized by a gentle calm exterior and a strong, deep interior. If the lake becomes turbulent then things become distorted. The lake needs to calm down (meditate, deep breathing, walking), then the relfection on the surface can be looked at, studied and understood.

"People who give themselves time to drink from their own depths can experience a lasting sense of joy." Bob Sachs
Also, if we add the first seven digits 1,2,3,4,5,6,7, equals 28. This number reduces to 10, the number of unity. The 2 is the peacemaker and the 8 is good judgement. 28 in numerology is known as 'the breaking number'. New experiences always seem to be in store when it comes up, surprises and unlimited opportunities too. That's because 2 + 8 = 10 new beginnings.

We live in a paradox world where things are divided. daynight. hot/cold, right/wrong, etc. We are always cocreating with our spiritual source. We have free will and yet we aren't in control?? When we are intent to find something, we will only get it after we have released our need to have it.

ravenstar

Hello Janice,

The number 7 is also connected with the 7 emotions and the Po, the Corpoural soul. The spiriual energy of the Lung. When looking to the Lo Shu 7 stands in the West. The Hun the ethereal soul stands in the East(3 in the Lo Shu) and is connected with the Liver. There are 3 Hun's; the Hun of the vegetational world, the Hun of the animal world and the Hun of the Humans.

We also have seven openings in our head(2 eyes, 2 ears, the nastrals and 1 mouth). So in Chinese medical phylosophy 7 has to do with emotions. And is 9 the spiritual number. In 8 is already 9 (1+2+3..+8=36=9). And 8 is the organisation(yin) of 7 and because 8 has already 9 in itself holisticaly speaking, 9 is a spiritual number, in way isn't 9 pysically needed. (1+2+3...9=45=9) it's a repetition of itself.

Frank
 
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charly

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...
The trigram for seven-metal is the Joyous Lake (Tui). Like a calm, cool lake it is characterized by a gentle calm exterior and a strong, deep interior. If the lake becomes turbulent then things become distorted. The lake needs to calm down (meditate, deep breathing, walking), then the relfection on the surface can be looked at, studied and understood.
...
Hi, Janice:

Maybe we need to be calm before getting the hairpinless lady? Very probable. And of course, TUI is woman and women can be admirable strong...

Like FU HAO, one of the consorts of WU DING, I believe the king that lasted more as Shang ruler:

female-warriors-Fu-Hao.jpg

From: Female Warriors of Ancient China FU HAO of the Shang Dynasty
At: http://www.chinese-swords-guide.com/female-warriors-1.html

I always wondered why in a book almost totally deprived of proper names, surely purged, stories about WU DING remained. (1)

Maybe was a badge of something more than good rulership, maybe a king that could appreciate women to the extrem of giving military authority to his prefered loved wife wich was general and priestess. Her ... (2) name was 婦好, do you see her cleaning her house with a broom?

Yours,


Charly

________________________
(1) Sure Steve Marshall has something about it, but I haven't his book. Might somebody post a quote or two?
(2) My mistake, FU HAO was not the postumous name, it was XIN.
 
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rosada

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Curious how we lost the ability to log in just as we are discussing 63.2 and 63.3.
Is losing one's veil energetically on par with losing the website?
Now that we've got it back is 63.3 reminding us now not to let Inferior people post?
Uh-oh, as it happens I am leaving town tomorrow and may not be able to get to a computer for a bit. What is that sayi about me? Harumph!

rosada
(I'll post 63.4 before I go)
 

rosada

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63.4

Six in the fourth place means:
The finest clothes turn to rags.
Be careful all day long.

In a time of flowering culture, an occasional convulsion is bound to occur, uncovering a hidden evil within society and at first causing great sensation. But since the situation is favorable on the whole, such evils can easily be glossed over and concealed from the public. Then everything is forgotten and peace apparently reigns complacently once more. However, to the thoughtful man such occurrences are grave omens that he does not neglect. Thus the only way of averting evil consequences.
-Wilhelm
 

fkegan

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Hi Rosada,

Hopefully the association is just to make good posts rather to censor or limit posting. Or in the alternative, the assumption that every word of text is applicable to every situation or time in which it comes up may have its limits too.

Line 4 moves into an even longer time frame than line 3 with its mention of 3 years. Left to themselves, finest clothes would take many years to fall into rags. There is also the commentary mentioned by Wilhelm in Book III that if your boat springs a leak, even the finest clothes could be torn to rags to plug that leak.

In general this line speaks of taking the long view, thinking not just about the immediate and superficial but rather being careful to consider the ultimate values involved. Hex 63.4>> 49 where the process of developing focus upon the feelings of your heart or soul (4th line Yin moving to Yang) is what the result of the consequences beyond the original Completion and its problems. Hex 49 is the total upheaval associated with a change of dynasties, taking usually a long time for the prior dynasty to lose the Mandate of Heaven and the Revolution succeed. In less political and more personal terms, it is the change of heart than can change your life.

In various ways, hex 63 highlighting the 4th line focuses attention upon the ultimate time horizon, what endures and what is transitory. The timing of hex 63 is about what one realizes AFTER one believes everything is completed or perfected. The eternal and the heartfelt only come into focus for us after we have completed our current efforts and thus have time to consider what else matters in the very long run.

Frank
 
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tuckchang

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63.4

Line 4: Beautiful clothes are available but (one is) wearing rags; to be alert for the whole day.
All the lines of the bottom trigram of Hex 63 are in correlation with their corresponding lines of the upper trigram, signifying there are accesses available if they want to make an upward move; however the upper trigram is Kan, the river and peril. Thus the line’s texts of the bottom trigram always advise that people should remain alter and prudent, as well as moderate (i.e. neither radical nor conservative) in order to maintain the status of the trigram Li: brightness, civilization……, and the line’s texts of the upper trigram Kan are about how people should behave or deal with peril or crises when they is in the trigram Kan, since it is evitable the hexagram will develop upward along the timeline..

Although Line 4 has left the bottom trigram Li and steps into the upper trigram Kan; it is still within the inner upper trigram Li (from line 3 to 5), i.e. it still possesses brilliant clothes, but it wears rags, signifying no matter how bright, civilize, or great….. etc it was, one must keep it internally and be alert for the whole day because one is in peril. Since if this line changes, the hexagram will become Ge; reform or revolution (49), wherein a colossal change is going on, and line 4 of the hexagram Ge is the line and the only line that doesn’t stay at its appropriate position and requests to be reformed.

Confucian commentary on the image: To be alert for the whole day is due to there being something suspicious; the environment or the atmosphere has been changing, i.e. peril is emerging onto the surface, one who possesses full confidence, or stays long in Li, and doesn’t know what is going to happen must be alert.

The text in Chinese: 繻 (xu1: color silk) 有 (you3: to have) 衣 (yi1: to wear) 袽 (ru2: rags); 繻 (xu1) is interpreted as 濡 (ru2): to wet, like 濡其尾 (wei3: the tail), in some writings and refers to the leakage, and the text signifies: a boat is leaking but rags are available. Although it also has the meaning of precautionary measures, I personally prefer not to change the character for reaching a reasonable explanation.

Regards
Tuck :bows:
 

charly

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Hi Charly!!

When I read your post yesterday, my mind kept circling around the Number Seven. So I thought I'd share a tad on what I know of this number.

7 is the number of spirituality, mysticism, wisdom and success. God made the world in 6 days and rested on the 7th...
Hi, Janice:

I was thinking about your Genesis connection. I was looking about associations between 63.3 and the Bible. Maybe the pivot is the character of WU DING quite equiparable to that of Solomon in the Song of Songs.

Both men were fond of exotic beauties. I'm dark but pretty said the Sulamite, say she was a foreigner beauty, like Fu Hao.

Wu Ding cultivated the allegiance of neighbouring tribes by marrying one woman from each of them. His favoured consort Fu Hao entered the royal household through such a marriage and took advantage of the semi-matriarchal slave society to rise through the ranks to military general and high priestess.

From: http://history.cultural-china.com/en/46History4202.html

63.3 says that WU DING attacked the Land of Ghosts, but I have the impression that he remained at his capital while his generals, even his wife, went to war. I also believe that the Huns were not subjugated at all, maybe only kept out of the frontiers.

Perhaps the hidden historical character in 63.3 is a a woman, FU HAO, known for her beauty and her strength. Her name is composed by two characters, the first meaning WOMAN and the second meaning GOOD.

FU, woman, is said to depict a lady holding a broom, symbol of female fate. I believe that the lady is holding another thing, maybe a flag, standard, banner or a badge of nobility or even occult powers.

I believe most probable for FU HAO to hold a flag. The second character depicts a mother with a child, something emminently GOOD, say LOVE. Then, the name of FU HAO could be read:

«GOOD IN WAR AS IN LOVE».​

Of course, H.63 is about LOVE and WAR, maybe not mutually exclusive, something like:


MAKE LOVE ALWAYS YOU CAN,
MAKE WAR ONLY WHEN INEVITABLE.

Common sense.

Wu Ding was not purged from the YI because:
  • he was here for his wife or for his low appetites
  • the TALL ANCESTOR was not at all the ancient Shang king, maybe only an euphemism for something else.

Soon the literal translation.

Best whishes,

Charly

P.D.:
Was Kerson Huang who believed that the YI was written by a woman? Li Se surely has his book.
Ch.
 
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M

maremaria

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Line 4: Beautiful clothes are available but (one is) wearing rags; to be alert for the whole day.

Regards
Tuck :bows:

This reminds me of a habit previous generations had, from stories I have heard. On Sundays and holidays they didn’t go for work so they were putting their good clothes and go out, make visits etc. Rags might be the working clothes and the “beautiful” clothes are for a restful day.

So, if my association is correct, that line means that there is still work to be done because things are still evolving , so its not time to relax.
 

tuckchang

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Line 4.....

since it is evitable the hexagram will develop upward along the timeline.

.............

Correction: it should be read as it is inevitable that the hexagram will develop upward...

Hi ! maremaria,

Indeed, I always get many other enlightenments from the extended meaning.

Regards
Tuck
 

ravenstar

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Hi, Janice:

I was thinking about your Genesis connection. I was looking about associations between 63.3 and the Bible. Maybe the pivot is the character of WU DING quite equiparable to that of Solomon in the Song of Songs.

Both men were fond of exotic beauties. I'm dark but pretty said the Sulamite, say she was a foreigner beauty, like Fu Hao.



63.3 says that WU DING attacked the Land of Ghosts, but I have the impression that he remained at his capital while his generals, even his wife, went to war. I also believe that the Huns were not subjugated at all, maybe only kept out of the frontiers.

Perhaps the hidden historical character in 63.3 is a a woman, FU HAO, known for her beauty and her strength. Her name is composed by two characters, the first meaning WOMAN and the second meaning GOOD.

FU, woman, is said to depict a lady holding a broom, symbol of female fate. I believe that the lady is holding another thing, maybe a flag, standard, banner or a badge of nobility or even occult powers.

I believe most probable for FU HAO to hold a flag. The second character depicts a mother with a child, something emminently GOOD, say LOVE. Then, the name of FU HAO could be read:

«GOOD IN WAR AS IN LOVE».​

Of course, H.63 is about LOVE and WAR, maybe not mutually exclusive, something like:


MAKE LOVE ALWAYS YOU CAN,
MAKE WAR ONLY WHEN INEVITABLE.

Common sense.

Wu Ding was not purged from the YI because:
  • he was here for his wife or for his low appetites
  • the TALL ANCESTOR was not at all the ancient Shang king, maybe only an euphemism for something else.

Soon the literal translation.

Best whishes,

Charly

P.D.:
Was Kerson Huang who believed that the YI was written by a woman? Li Se surely has his book.
Ch.


Ah Charly, as always your posts are very thought provoking.

I have read somewhere that GOOD = 23/5 is synonymous with the word GOD. So GOOD may just be divine power. GOOD is creative, it's self-increasing and self-multiplying...the GOOD continues to create more GOOD. And with GOOD you first create and then increase with 'Strength' in your mind, body and spirit.

What is WAR? Does it rise us up with importance (Mars Symbol)?
Are we so sure we are right and everyone else is wrong that we will fight for our beliefs. WAR = 15/6, so does BATTLE, DUEL, MEAN.

Without WOMAN, physical life could not be regenerated. The egg shows itself in wOm, meaning that the egg is in the womb.

Neat stuff on FU too. Thanks Charly!

ravenstar
 

ravenstar

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Hello Janice,

The number 7 is also connected with the 7 emotions and the Po, the Corpoural soul. The spiriual energy of the Lung. When looking to the Lo Shu 7 stands in the West. The Hun the ethereal soul stands in the East(3 in the Lo Shu) and is connected with the Liver. There are 3 Hun's; the Hun of the vegetational world, the Hun of the animal world and the Hun of the Humans.

We also have seven openings in our head(2 eyes, 2 ears, the nastrals and 1 mouth). So in Chinese medical phylosophy 7 has to do with emotions. And is 9 the spiritual number. In 8 is already 9 (1+2+3..+8=36=9). And 8 is the organisation(yin) of 7 and because 8 has already 9 in itself holisticaly speaking, 9 is a spiritual number, in way isn't 9 pysically needed. (1+2+3...9=45=9) it's a repetition of itself.

Frank

Good Morning Frank,

Thank you, I didn't know 7 was linked to the seven emotions! What about the skin......as it is our protective barrier from the outside.

I had to think on your post for awhile before answering. Hmm let's see, the direction WEST is WATER, EAST is AIR. Just writing my thoughts out loud......looking up and remembering these elements

WATER, the element intuitive powers, of our emotions, and introspection. Just as the universe expands outward into space, so it delves deep within us. It is a place of soul searching, of self-examinations, of knowing our shadows/triggers, our dreams, and our inner spirit.

Water is nurturing and helps us to pay attention to situations or problems we may come face to face with. With AIR we can learn to keep those emotions under control

WATER is healing, protective and can show us how to use these skills to the best of our ability. It helps us to defend those we love (CHARLY'S picture of FU and the BROOM?) and even ourselves and encourages us to to take chances and risks in life.

Water can be harsh too, it can cause floods or freeze and even crack under pressure.

AIR is chaotic, creative and inspirational. It is the place of thoughts not emotions, a place of no passion, of logic. It is a place of scholars, philosophers, teachers and people like ourselves who come together and learn.

AIR AND WATER together help us to trust our senses, our instincts, and follow our intuitions. They can calm our emotions. (CHARLY'S FLAG?)

AIR can strike with such a force we can be knocked off our feet and literally carried away by its winds.

So when we are emotional we become ungrounded, we can't get a grip on something....we lose our footing or things like the hairpin to the hair?

Also, AIR And WATER can they both arise out of clinging or attachment?

With too much water we can seem shy, subdued, fearful......we hide in our shoulders.....we are afraid to ask if someone has seen our hairpin, we lack self confidence and that hampers our intentions.

With too much air we are authorative and dislike being contradicted. We impose our personality on others and actually go against the grain of our true nature. We put up a good front, show we're totally independant but what we actually want or need is emotional support.

Getting back to the loss of the hairpin, [QUOTE from Charly] The YI is not telling us that the woman goes to find the blind, the veil or the hairpin, but that if we know how to behave, we can get in short time the main object of our desire. In men´s case, the woman, even more a woman that have lost her composure. (2)

Lady missing her hairpin (say, her composure) do not pursue. Seven days got.
[/QUOTE]

can this be when someone feels out of place, lets others dominate them....someone who avoids confrontations at all costs? Do they withdraw into themselves like a snail in its shell....a tiny little shelter when one feels protected? In so doing, they lack breath as well as stamina?

ravenstar
 
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charly

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...
I have read somewhere that GOOD = 23/5 is synonymous with the word GOD. So GOOD may just be divine power. GOOD is creative, it's self-increasing and self-multiplying...the GOOD continues to create more GOOD. And with GOOD you first create and then increase with 'Strength' in your mind, body and spirit.
...
Hi, Janice:

I have got a book but still I didn't read it:

The Chinese HEART in a Cognitive Perspective: Culture, Body, and Language (Applications of Cognitive Linguistics): Yu, Ning

Do you know it? If you are interested maybe you can get it at:

http://uploading.com/files/get/DATM3MGV/

All the best,

Charly

P.D.

More stuf abour Fu Hao an d Wu Ding:
The Zhou Dynsty that succeeded the Shang was set up on a feudal patriarchal clan system under which women's status was greatly reduced. Women who had taken part in politics and military affairs during the Shang Dynasty were snubbed as rebels or "hens reporting the dawn". Women under the Zhou were deprived of the right to personal property, and from that time on, they were at the mercy of the gods, the clan and the husband.

From All china Women's Federation.
at: http://www.womenofchina.cn/Profiles/Women_in_History/1405.jsp

Ch.
 
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ravenstar

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Thanks Charly and thanks for the link! I looked up the book on Google, holy smokes that's an expensive book. It must be GOOD huh?

ravenstar :)
 

rosada

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Six in the fourth place:

a)
The finest clothes turn to rags.
Be careful all day long.

b)
"Be careful all day long." There is cause for doubt.

This is a yielding line in a yielding place at the beginning of danger.
Hence the warning that even the finest clothes turn to rags. Cause for doubt comes from the trigram K'an, danger, which we enter here.

Cheng Tzu gives another explanation. He employs the image of a boat, and says:

"It has a leak, but there are rags for plugging it up.

-Wilhelm
 

my_key

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We seem to have got stuck at the transition point between lines 3 and 4 in the transition hexagram. Is this the place where all the blocks are lurking?

63.3 - The long and winding road has reached it's summit but we have to keep right on to the end of the road, keep right on to the end otherwise it's down the slippery slope of one step forward and two steps back.

63.4 - The view from the top is beautiful in all directions.Which ever route you have chosen to take and however well you think you have swept the path, rest assured an unexpected obstacle will be lying in wait to trip you up. Give it the proper attention it deserves to get it right out of the way and don't just try to skip around it. And don't kid yourself there will just be the one.

Mike
 

fkegan

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Hi Rosada,

This is certainly a difficult line to wrestle with in divination. In general hex 63 is about what happens AFTER you have completed what you want and now things change in ways you didn't bother to notice. The lines each has a longer and more powerful process involved. This line is the place of the heart or soul and deep feelings. Here the overall process of inevitable decay or the changing whims of fashion is used as an image and the general advice is to pay close attention to what is going on rather than just relying upon your achieving your fine success to be the be-all and end-all.

The commentary of finest clothes becoming rags to plug holes in a leaky boat offers a positive spin. The time for finest clothes are over, but they still can be useful for dealing with current problems if you attend to what is needed now rather than holding on to your prior achievements as all that matters.

Frank
 

frank_r

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Line 3 the top line of trigram fire and line 4 the lower line of trigram water.

Fire is changing into thunder and water is changing into lake.
Both changes from the Fu Shi to the King Wen sequence.
So we get a change from the world of idea's into the real world.

Was line 3 the line of the kidney and our ancestors, and line 4 the line of the heart and uncondional love. The gap between the 3th and 4th line is the deepest gap in our inner being.
This is the deepest you can go.

Is the change in 63.3 to 3 the start of a initiation, here the centre is empty(yin).
The change in 63.4 is a outside change, a revolution of the outside. The centre is yang full of expression and strenght.


When they change together you get 17, one of the quantum hexagram. Here there is change from trigram water to trigram water. The energy stays the same but is going to a deeper level. Try to go with this flow because otherwise you will drown. And will it be hard to make this huge jump.

Frank
 
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charly

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Thanks Charly and thanks for the link! I looked up the book on Google, holy smokes that's an expensive book. It must be GOOD huh?

ravenstar :)
Janice:

If you are interested can get a copy from the linked page. If you have problems ask me.

I was working a little with the Great Ancestor / Wu Ding. If the Gui Fang were the Hiungnu, maybe was not a good idea to send troops against them.
Qin massive aggression against the Xiongnu had unexpected consequences for Sino-nomadic relations. The Xiongnu reorganized and used the opportunity of the collapse of Qin in 207 BCE to renew military pressure on China's boundaries ... Scholars have long been fascinated by the almost simultaneous rise of two unified empires – Qin-Han and the Xiongnu – on both sides of the Great Wall ... many of the past theories cannot be adequately supported by historical evidence ... the nomadic organization was a response to the crisis engendered by Qin incursions deep into Xiongnu territory. The resultant militarization of nomadic society brought about the emergence of a military aristocracy, which sought to maximize its power through limited political centralization on the supra-tribal level, and continuous extortion of Chinese goods. ...
From: Book Review: Ancient China and Its Enemies - The Rise of Nomadic Power in East Asian History
At: http://www.history.ac.uk/reviews/paper/pinesY.html

Maybe not three years for subduing them but three years trying to detain the nomads. Shangs and Zhous were more efficient contending with the northern tribes, but in the long term was only a stand by.

Best whishes,

Charly
 

rosada

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The neighbor in the east who slaughters an ox
Does not attain as much real happiness
As the neighbor in the west
With his small offering.

Religious attitudes are likewise influenced by the spiritual atmosphere prevailing in times after completion. In divine worship the simple old forms are replaced by an ever more elaborate ritual and an ever greater outward display. But inner seriousness is lacking in this show of magnificence; human caprice takes the place of conscientious obedience to the divine will. However, while man sees what is before his eyes, God looks into the heart. Therefore a simple sacrifice offered with real piety holds a greater blessing than an impressive service without warmth.
-Wilhelm
 

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Here with line 5, a Yang line showing focus upon the expression of one's will or mind to force the results intended, the time frame has lengthened toward the eternal or expanded into an attempt to complete one's goals through the great sacrifice of a large animal an ox. However, since this is the hexagram of what happens in response to a total focus upon your actions ignoring all other considerations or responses, the results of this large, showy, expensive sacrifice are minor compared to a simpler one with actual piety and awareness of the spiritual power beyond individual control. You can buy a big public ox sacrifice but not the favor of Heaven.

When the fifth line of hex 63 moves it yields hex 36-- After Completion or The Morning After becomes Darkening of the Light or the Setting Sun or Son. The expression and exhaustion of the total package of self-centered achievement must face the consequences beyond those efforts in the dark realms of the night.

Frank
 

tuckchang

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Line 5:
The text: The eastern neighbor slaughters an ox, (but it is) not better than the western neighbor having a simple sacrificial ceremony, by which one will be really blessed with good fortune (or solidity or reality is the one that will benefit good fortune).

The last sentence: 實 (shi2) 受其福; 實 (shi2) signifies solid, real, honest, true etc in terms of adjectives; in the I Ching, solidity is regarded as Yang (i.e. masculinity), while Yin (i.e. femininity) is void. 實受 (shou4: to be blessed) 其福 (fu2: good fortune) can be understood: the masculine, or the one who is pragmatic, or the one who acts according to the true demand …will be really blessed with good fortune.

Most of times line 5 is taken for the host line of a hexagram which dominates the whole hexagram. The middle line of the trigram Kun of Hex 11 (Tai) descends to the middle position of the trigram Qian and forms the hexagram Ji Ji: having already crossed the river, while the masculine (i.e. solid) line of the trigram Qian is lifted to the position 5, the king’s position, and reaches the climax of the hexagram Ji Ji, but also arrives at the middle of the upper trigram Kan: the river and peril. The one at the climax is doomed to decline, like auspiciousness at the beginning but disorder at the end; however if a person in peril can act pragmatically to maintain fruitful achievements, i.e. not to be complacent but face peril and deal with crises, he will be leaded to really good fortune.

The commentary on the image: The eastern neighbor slaughters an ox, (but it is) not better than the timing of the eastern neighbor, by which one will be really blessed with good fortune (or solidity or reality is the one that will benefit good fortune); tremendous auspiciousness will come.

Usually the cattle are the sacrifice used for a splendid ceremony and the pig for a simple one; however, whether or not the ceremony is devout doesn’t depend on the sacrifice but on the sincerity & trust (i.e. belief in) of the worshiper, and to worship with sincerity & trust is that which will bring about good fortune. Sincerity & trust is the 實 (shi2) of worshipping.
According to Shuo Gua Zhuan 說卦傳 (the commentary on the trigram), the upper trigram Kun of original Hex 11 (Tai) represents the cattle, while the upper trigram Kan of Ji Ji represents the pig. The trigram Kan also signifies sincerity & trust (aka 有孚 you3 fu2) since it is constituted by a masculine line in the middle of two feminine lines, like a solid heart.
The masculine line of the trigram Qian (of Hex 11) ascends, changes the trigram Kun (the cattle) into Kan and represents the trigram Kan (the pig as well as sincerity & trust); it occupies the king’s position and takes charge of worshipping; it at the core position dominates the whole hexagram of Ji Ji: having already crossed the river; hence tremendous auspiciousness will come. Remarks: Position 5 is also at the middle position of the upper trigram, the line of which possesses the principle of moderation (i.e. 中道 zhong1 dao4): neither radical nor conservative, same as the one that line 2 possesses.

Although there is no direct link between lines 2 and 5, and no historical evidence proves the following; from the perspective in viewing the hexagram’s development along the timeline I would like to add: Though Wu Ding (King Gao Zong) was a virtuous and talent person, his father should transfer the crown to the son of his older brother whom he succeeded not long ago. There are different interpretations of Wu Ding’s three years mourning for his father’s pass away, such as he must make use of the filial excuse in order to gain a grace period for avoiding being overthrown and deploying his succession. Provided years in battling were just for quelling dissenters and building up his empery; the day when he worshiped Heaven and the ancestors to exhibit his victory and glory; a question would remain, i.e. whether all he had done are necessary and worthwhile. If this line is triggered and changes (to the feminine, i.e. a villain), the upper trigram will become Kun (i.e. to slaughter an ox instead of worshipping with sincerity & trust) again and the hexagram will become Hex 36 (Ming Yi: brightness being tarnished), wherein the sun sinks into the earth, and virtuous persons get hurt when a fatuous king rules the country.

Regards
Tuck :bows:
 

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