PO Box 6945,
+44 (0)20 3287 3053 (UK)
+1 (561) 459-4758 (US).
A concise answer from Elvis/CL? That is beyond his current abilities. From fixed ideas come only fixed responses and for those who see the world solely in simplistic either/or choices they recognize only their own stuff and all else rejected as not-their-stuff. However, since everyone else is not-them we get to live in the real world.So? And only so if you don't expect a concise answer. Magic requires a departure from logic, a quantum leap of sorts. Just as with effective prayer.
there is no departure from logic, there is a dumbing down of logic where the full logic of asymmetric thinking loses resolution power to become symmetric logic. It is in the realm of the symmetric that instance/class confusions manifest themselves.So? And only so if you don't expect a concise answer. Magic requires a departure from logic, a quantum leap of sorts. Just as with effective prayer.
If you believe this then you dont understand and obviously confuse instances with classes - and so present symmetric thinking - which is fine until one needs consistent, reliable, repeatable data and the EIC shows CLEARLY that that is possible and offers methodology superior to the current traditionalist mindset - the problem of course is it can require one to think.From the Yijing. Meaning, it's no wonder that Chris receives only vague answers from magical methods, since he doesn't believe in magic.
Yes, quite. An accurate and insightful Yi Oracle would be most unkind, striking to the very heart of his fundamental assumptions. Fortunately no one is obliged to understand the Oracle results. Though it is cute when someone asks a question from the Oracle and then insists it can't be understood though everyone else around finds it precise and insightful. But that involves a situation of empirical verification and objective review. I used to do such things in various groups.The "science types" either showed their personal flexibility or their hard shelled fundamentalism. But then the question put to the Oracle wasn't just their private matter but a group issue.From the Yijing. Meaning, it's no wonder that Chris receives only vague answers from magical methods, since he doesn't believe in magic.
It would be tough not to find something interesting in the torrent of words taken as words in general. It is only the circular logic starting and ending with binary dualism that goes nowhere.That's cool. Chris' posts have helped me on plenty of occasions.
There are Fire and Water schools in the Taoist and other traditions. The Fire practitioners stress super-efforts to attain self-mastery and eschew integrating all parts of their being in their work, working out the gaps later ; while the Water ones stress harmonious,graduated development with no parts left undeveloped in the process....
But, returning to the topic at hand, what about LI as trigram and hexagram 30.
Hexagram 30 in relationship questions would suggest more along the line of the clinging than the eye. Fire clings to its fuel logs--and destroys them in all sorts of energetic displays and spitting embers. To the good, being fluid following the available fuel and making the best of its inner content would be a good thing.
Is the trigram li the same as the hexagram li or are they two very different entities composed of similar elements. The trigram li is associated to fire burning upon a wooden log, destroying the log structure to create light and heat and giving energy for human activity. The only associations to eyes or seeing are the graphical element of an open space in the middle of the line strokes. This image is taken to represent a net more than an eye.
In the commentary, hexagram li is associated to sunlight and the progress of time through the day. The name of the hexagram in Wilhelm is associated with 'clinging' and the notion of fire clinging to and depending upon the shape of its fuel, that is fire is fluid and clings to its source. Taking care of your cows allows for the eventual maximum output of milk, calves and meat as the inner life is nurtured and brought out.
The seeing seems to come more from the clarity that fire light can bring to a dark situation than to li referring to the eye. The moral value of trigram li seems to be associated not with seeing through an inner eye; but rather clinging to and being molded by proper moral values.
I agree with the above completely. Which is probably why I take no offense to Chris' denial of what he loves to refer to as magical thinking. To me, magic is only science we haven't rationalized yet. There really is no magic, other than that which doesn't fit our linear landscape, called reasoning. That's why Chris can't make heads or tails of divination. Besides, it would make him a hypocrite if he did.Magic has its own logic which happens to include all creative human endeavors including science. I used to use the phrase, "Science is Magic" as a litmus test-- the inventive creative scientists would reply, "Of course, that's what fascinates me in my research!"
And those who replied, "OH, NO!" Magic is in no way science" never managed anything interesting or insightful to say after that.
Divination is a unique answer to YOUR personal question. Science is defined as the reports of what can be duplicated by any researcher over and over again at any time or place without limit. They simply don't overlap at all.
Those into divination are free to explore the reports of science. Those insisting only science and its methods and reports are valid are not allowed to visit any other realms, including of course their own subjective reality.
:bows: To dismiss Chris, off-hand, because is "Chris," could lead to a waste of useful and important information.I scan Chris' posts, intuitively looking for a 'best fit'. Usually when he applies his reasoning to specifics, rather than arguing its legitimacy or degrading the views of others, there is a fascinating logic, which does to lead to reliable and repeatable conclusions. I don't dis or dismiss that.
By the way, I recently read on LiSe's site that Ming Yi was also translated as "Injury to the Eye" by Waley (http://www.yijing.nl/i_ching/hex_33-48/36.htm)Hexagram 36, Brightness Hiding: fire hidden away under the earth. It’s night-time; perhaps the eyes are closed, and the light of awareness is earthed up like a charcoal-burner’s fire.You might be hiding the extent of your insight (often what 36 seems to be advising); you might be seeing in an earth-like way: open, receptive, not doing anything to change what you see, just being aware.
Hi Bert,Buzzarro, I remember clearly a few times that my eyes were hurting and I got hex 36. It surely is a resonating phenomena.
Hi Panther^2Zen masters may hit you on the head to assist a transition
Hi Elvis/CLso you need to prove me wrong and you right. You prepared for such a contest? I am.
none of such is happening - recursion general to particular is happening with such represented using the bit dichotomy of 0/1. This allows for coverage of anti-symmetric (exclusive or), symmetric (equivalence), and asymmetric (implication) patterns moving from a mechanistic into an organic form.Hi Elvis/CL
Binary, zero sum thinking never gets very far.
It helps in understanding that 1 + 1 = 2 and only 2.Declaring everyone else wrong does not do a whit to prove anything or your views right.
We only have our own opinions due to NOT being aware of the language capabilities of the I Ching, all we have had is opinions due to there being no DEFINITE listing of meaning - NOW there is and it comes out of 3000+ years of science where suddenly all of the opinions of you/me/others become marginalised to the I Ching asserting its own descriptions rather than through you/me/others.The secret is that we each get to have our own opinions which even back to the Medieval Scholastics (the source of University sciences) were accepted as a matter of personal taste and not suitable for formal disputation. It is only when you can accept others views as OK that you can expect to escape from assumptions only one view is allowed to be right, true, real or whatever to real discussion.
... based on the ignorance/limitations of consciousness where its partials, mechanistic, delay, focus SERVES the holistic, organic, immediate focus of our species nature. The EIC focus now gives us access to finer details, to the holistic experience using our holistic capabilities of primary emotions.Take a moment to reflect inwardly, use whatever method you wish to select a Yi Oracle. I suggest the simple way since getting hung up in techniques whether statistical or object based is distracting. Statistics were developed by Napoleon's generals as a means of applying voting techniques to choose the best representative number from a population of data. Divination is about unique answers to personal questions.
You obviously are not up-to-date on the brain's meaning creation dynamics where if the literal does not work then there is an immediate development of the figurative. As such I can take any two words out of the dictionary and if there is no immediate response my brain can, over time, elicit meaning through interpreting the words figuratively.Consider quietly, look within and allow two natural numbers 1-64 inclusive, either the same number twice or two different numbers to manifest and post them here.
Or in the alternative use whatever technique pleases you to determine your numbers and we can objectively discuss the results.
PO Box 6945,
+44 (0)20 3287 3053 (UK)
+1 (561) 459-4758 (US).