Memorizing the I Ching. 29. K'an / The Abysmal (Water)

[bradford]

"A journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step."
~Confucius

That's Laozi who said that.
Technically it's "A journey of a thousand Li begins underfoot"
1000 li is about 500 km

 

[rosada]

Thanks Cesca, I'm now going to call 29. The Pit Stop!

I'm seeing the danger talked about in this hexagram as Temptation. For example, in line one, a person gets used to what is dangerous and so allows it to become apart of him. Think of being in an environment where everyone uses profanity and eats foods that are of little nutritional value. At first you maybe shocked, but before long you don't notice and indeed you may find your own vocabulary has been corrupted or you have blown your diet. Line 2 is the strong yang line so this tells us how to behave when surrounded by temptation. One is advised not totry to change the world, but to maintain their own values.

 

[getojack]

That's Laozi who said that.
Technically it's "A journey of a thousand Li begins underfoot"
1000 li is about 500 km

Oops, let me try that again...

"A journey of about 310.685 miles begins underfoot"

~Laozi

 

[bradford]

Oops, let me try that again...
"A journey of about 310.685 miles begins underfoot"
~Laozi

Now ain't that better? You just saved us all 689 miles of walking.
I feel that the journey is most doable now.

 

[rosada]

Six in the third place means:
Forward and backward, abyss on abyss.
In danger like this, pause at first and wait,
Otherwise you will fall into a pit in the abyss.
Do not act in this way.

Here every step, forward or backward, leads into danger. Escape is out of the question. Therefore we must not be misled into action, as a result of which we should only bog down deeper in the danger; disagreeable as it may be to remain in such a situation, we must wait until a way out shows itself.

"Forward and backward, abyss on abyss": here any effort ends up as impossible.

This line is weak, and not in its proper place. It is in the midst of danger and moreover stands in the middle of the nuclear trigram Chen, movement; hense it is not only surrounded by danger but also full of inner disquiet. Hense the warning not to act, as the nature of the line suggests.
-Wilhelm

 

[rosada]

I have been having to rely on the kindness of strangers to get to a computer this last week. I think I'm okay now, but a couple of days ago I had to use the one at the public library. They limit you to just thirty minutes. I didn't think this was going to be aproblem, but when I went to my email there were messages I got caught up in reading. Before I knew it my 30 minute computer time was up and I hadn't even gotten to the I Ching. Anyway, seemed like a fitting example of 29. Had I truly had "Success in my heart" I would not have been tempted and fallen into the email abyss.

 

[bradford]

Six in the third place means:
Forward and backward, abyss on abyss.
In danger like this, pause at first and wait,
Otherwise you will fall into a pit in the abyss.
Do not act in this way.
=Wilhelm

This translation shows how Wilhelm is willing to skip over a concrete/sensory image in favor of his own abstractions. The Chinese doesn't say "pause at first and wait" -
it says "the crevice [between] is also a resting place [or pillow]", suggesting a broader form of opportunism, making a positive use of an opportunity to recharge (zhi gua 48).
I think Wilhelm gives up way too much here, like the main point of the line.

 

[bruce_g]

This translation shows how Wilhelm is willing to skip over a concrete/sensory image in favor of his own abstractions. The Chinese doesn't say "pause at first and wait" -
it says "the crevice [between] is also a resting place [or pillow]", suggesting a broader form of opportunism, making a positive use of an opportunity to recharge (zhi gua 48).
I think Wilhelm gives up way too much here, like the main point of the line.

Would this then mean 'don't overreact'? Or, to chill? Not sure I see the opportunity here.

Never mind, Brad. Sometimes I have to read what you say a few times, as well in your translation, to get what you're saying.

 

[bradford]

Sometimes I have to read what you say a few times, as well in your translation, to get what you're saying.

Just imagine how confusing it is living in this head.

But the Yi is supposed to be read many times before you can claim to understand it.
It ain't no speed read for sure.

Yes, the pause might include taking in the sights, some deep breaths, a nap, some nice trail mix, mebbe some Kodak memories of the climb. I don't know if I'd do a doobie til I got clear out of the chasm tho.

 

[getojack]

Six in the third

六三 來之坎坎。險且枕。入于坎窞。勿用。

liu4 san1 lai2 zhi1 kan3 kan3 xian3 qie3 zhen3 ru4 yu2 kan3 dan4 wu4 yong4

 

[rosada]

I took my 92 year year mother out for a walk today. We got to the blvd at the end of the block when she told me she couldn't go any further. Hot sun, too tired to walk home, what to do? Thinking about the day's I Ching I paused and looked about wondering how long we would have to "wait until a way out shows itself" - and discovered we were standing right in front of a nail salon which not only had I never seen on this street before, but it was open even though today was Sunday! It seems we must have then fast forewarded to 29.4 because next we walked into their cool parlor, Mom got to sit in a regal chair that massaged her all over while a dear soul pampered her with a pedicure.

This book is magical!

 

[charly]

...Wilhelm is willing to skip over a concrete/sensory image in favor of his own abstractions. The Chinese doesn't say "pause at first and wait" -
it says "the crevice [between] is also a resting place [or pillow]", suggesting a broader form of opportunism, making a positive use of an opportunity ...

Brad:

Are you saying that even in this bad situation can have an hidden opportunity?

I feel that the «abyss» is a so hard image that naturally requires to stop before any action. If one choose «abyss» instead of, say, «pit», necessarily had to stop an wait. No chinese text said, but common sense.

I think like you that in this line there is an opportunity. At the begining, to enter into the «kan-dan» (pit cave?) is «xiong» (unlucky?), after having taken some small gains it's only not recommendable, but not yet «xiong».

And «kan-dan», what is it? I read it as «to enter direct to a house back-room without waiting for permision» and I hear W saying «wait, wait, or you're dead man!». Why not «xiong» thus?

I have read somewhere «a hole in a hole», getting two images:

1) skull orbits: warning! like poisson stickers, «stop and wait», for what? for the inexorable future?

2) pierced cowrie shells, like ancient chinese coins: opportuity? promise? Of course it can fail, be cautious.

What do you think about these wild images?

Yours,


Charly

 

[bruce_g]

Just imagine how confusing it is living in this head.

Some scary chit!

But the Yi is supposed to be read many times before you can claim to understand it.
It ain't no speed read for sure.

Well I don't claim to understand it, and I've read it many times. I can feel it, though. Before I can feel your commentaries I first must climb into this character you create, and walk his steps. Then I can get where you and he are going.

Yes, the pause might include taking in the sights, some deep breaths, a nap, some nice trail mix, mebbe some Kodak memories of the climb. I don't know if I'd do a doobie til I got clear out of the chasm tho.

Yes, good advice. Reminds me of the survival guy on Discovery, finding a crevice on the side of a mountain, and taking advantage of the shade therein to rest up and cool off.

 

[bradford]

Some scary chit!

Obscure allusions from Vedanta? That's good.
I sat right down and felt a nanda.

I first must climb into this character you create, and walk his steps. Then I can get where you and he are going.

You actually Get what I'm doing there with the commentaries. Not many seem to.
I tried really hard to avoid making them into "explanations." Walking around in the metaphors and analogies as costumes was the best way I could think of to explore without explaining or constraining. But it required taking lots of points of view, and many people tend to take them as My points of view and moods as a writer.

Yes, good advice. Reminds me of the survival guy on Discovery, finding a crevice on the side of a mountain, and taking advantage of the shade therein to rest up and cool off.

Exactly. Opportunistic non-linearity. Ledges go sideways.

 

[rosada]

Six in the fourth place means:

A jug of wine, a bowl of rice with it,
Earthen vessels
Simply handed in through the window.
There is certainly no blame in this.

 

[rosada]

Thinking about this discusion of drumming and also Kan meaning water and waves. Thus images of sound waves and ocean waves and the idea that the Universe is made up of waves of vibration and how we each emit a vibration. These vibrations flow out and back to us like sound waves aand ocean waves. Isn't there some theory that the light we see is actually our own light reflected back to us along with all other light on our same wave length? Or something like that. I'm thinking 29.1 is the state we're in when we've put out our signal but before the echo comes back to us. We are in a sea of vibrations and we cannot identify which is ours. But as we persever, our light, our path does shine - 29.2 - but only enough to show us our next step. So then 29.3 is the awareness of that the path will light up for us, but that we have to pause, or go slow to be in sync. What's that line, "Never go faster than your angels can fly"? When moving with the inner and outer in sync, all the lights turn green and the world opens up with simple pleasures - 29.4. Had a 29.4 moment today driving up to the In and Out Burger Hut. This is a drive through food place that has a menu limited to just four items. It's simple easy and friendly, the food is simply handed OUT through an open window.
Anyway, I'm not experiencing 29 as the raging rapids ride it's reputed to be. Seems more to be about how to take things one step at a time, to not skip any steps, to not be rushed, to stay centered.

 

[getojack]

Six in the fourth

六四 樽酒簋貳。用缶。納約自牖。終旡咎。

liu4 si4 zun1 jiu3 gui3 er4 yong4 fou3 na4 yue1 zi4 you3 zhong1 wu2 jiu4

 

[getojack]

A simple offering of food and drink can mean a lot to someone who's stuck in a pit. What is merely a burger and fries to you could be the first meal someone's had in a week to someone else. Instead of filling the pit in your own stomach, try filling the pit in someone else. There's certainly no blame in that.

 

[rosada]

Not sure what your point here is getojack. I'm saying that I see 29.4 as saying that when one is in sync with the moment and keeping one's requirements simple, one's needs are met. I would think 29 as a whole refers to those days when you've got a lot to do and you are tempted to rush and like a man frantically trying to stay afloat on a runaway raft by throwing any extra bagage overboard, one starts to try to accomodate the demands of the world by giving up things you need to do for yourself. 29 would say don't rush ahead, take the time to do whatever it is that you need to do for you, eat breakfast, brush teeth, and by NOT skipping these requirements, you impose your vibration on the rhythm of the day and, LO!, your timing actually becomes so in sync with The Universe, that what you need flows to you, like the meal through the window or the perfect parking place.

I see, the 29 image of having "success in your heart" as meaning, having a vision of what you what to achieve, that this image will draw you it to you. I think of the expression, "Plan your day or it will plan you."

So my point is I see 29 as being advice on how to get in the flow, how to impose your own will on the wild river ride. 29.2 tells how to slowly conciously carefully put it out there and 29.4 shows what comes back. 29.4 is evidence of how your doing, how your own inner timing is connecting with the world's outer flow.

I'm seeing "How can there be blame in this?" as meaning, "Along with doing all your chores, enjoy the day. Stop and smell the roses. How can there be blame in excepting the kind offerings of the Universe?"

Now I suppose 29.4 could be read as "Don't get caught up in the unrealistic demands of the time. Even if all you have to contribute is very simple there is no blame in a sincere offering." But I don't think that's it's core meaning. I mean, while I agree 29.4 can manefest as giving to others, I think 29 is uniquely about taking care of one's own needs, taking time for self, acting in a way so as not to lose self in filling the demands of the world, and that 29.4 is showing that the universe will then respond and give us what we have said we need. "Insist on the best and you're liable to get it."


As we figure out how to do this, then we flow to 30, which is -I think - going to be about being able to see self as a separate individual and then once we see that we and others are separate, on to 31 which I think is where we see the doing for others side of life. So you are saying 29.4 is about acting selflessly, and I'm saying I don't think we're quite there yet.

 

[getojack]

Imagine you've fallen into a pit... your friends have managed to escape but you're still down in the dark hole. 29.4 isn't saying you're the one in the pit. Neither is it saying you're the one handing food and drink through the window (the opening in the pit). It's saying, "THERE'S A DANGEROUS SITUATION!" in no uncertain terms. Now in that situation, would you deny food and drink to your friend in the pit?

 

[Trojina]

29.4 for me has till now meant that one just about manages in a very difficult sitation, help arrives which is just enough to cope and continue.

 

[getojack]

So a fish walks into a bar and the bartender says, "What do you want?" The fish croaks..."Water."

 

[lienshan]

A jug of wine, a bowl of rice with it,
Earthen vessels
Simply handed in through the window.
There is certainly no blame in this.

WANTED DEAD OR ALIVE

You'll be spotted, when hiding, if the wine and food is brought to you in bronze vessels delivered at the door.

 

[getojack]

WANTED DEAD OR ALIVE

You'll be spotted, when hiding, if the wine and food is brought to you in bronze vessels delivered at the door.

I like this... :bows:

 

[charly]

WANTED DEAD OR ALIVE

You'll be spotted, when hiding, if the wine and food is brought to you in bronze vessels delivered at the door.

Somethign about delivering through the window...

(from the Dilber official page)


Charly

 

[charly]

I took my 92 year year mother out for a walk today. We got to the blvd at the end of the block when she told me she couldn't go any further. Hot sun, too tired to walk home, what to do? Thinking about the day's I Ching I paused and looked about wondering how long we would have to "wait until a way out shows itself" - and discovered we were standing right in front of a nail salon which not only had I never seen on this street before, but it was open even though today was Sunday! It seems we must have then fast forewarded to 29.4 because next we walked into their cool parlor, Mom got to sit in a regal chair that massaged her all over while a dear soul pampered her with a pedicure.

This book is magical!

Rosada:

You have your 92 years old mother and she walks and goes to beauty shops!
Congratulations!

Charly

 

[lienshan]

Somethign about delivering through the window...

Liu Da-jun, professor at Shandong university, President of China Zhouyi Society:

Six at the fourth line: When offering sacrifice, one uses wine in the cup and grain in the bowl, and then
fills the pot with wine by taking it with a spoon through a window. As a result, no calamity takes place.

(translated by professor Fu You-de)

 

[charly]

Liu Da-jun, professor at Shandong university, President of China Zhouyi Society:
Six at the fourth line: When offering sacrifice, one uses wine in the cup and grain in the bowl, and then fills the pot with wine by taking it with a spoon through a window. As a result, no calamity takes place.
(translated by professor Fu You-de)

Hi:

The quote seems to be very authoritative because of institutions and titles, but with this sample I think it's only one more of the non-literal translations.

Looking at the chinese text I wonder where some precisions cames from:

1) 樽 zun wine-jar? 酒 jiu wine
the 1st. character is in attibute position, X-wine, holy wine ? (1)
but if a container, a cup?

2)
簋 gui basket for grain offerings, a basket for sacred uses, not a bowl

3)
貳 er two?/ both?
Where did it goes in Fu Youde translation?
I have read that er 貳 were not applied (in the sense of two) except for some names of places.

4)
用 yong 缶 fou (use pottery)
Maybe from here cames the bowl.

5)
納 na 約 yue 自 zi 牖 you (window)
Something happen with the window, but what?
«fills the pot with wine by taking it with a spoon through a window»?

6)
終 zhong 无 wu 咎 jiu (at the end no wrong)
At the begining seems wrong?

Of course, it's an interpretative translation, perhaps based on detailed awareness of some ritual, but we don't know it and the translator doesn't explain it. Might you?


Temporary render:
Don't throw things (as bricks) though the window, can be «your» window.

A better one:
Don't throw rites though the window, at the end you will understand that rites have its function.

Don't you agree?

Yours,

Charly

-------------------------------------------------
(1) I promise to search a post from Luis about the matter, I don't remember where it is.

 

[lienshan]

Something happen with the window, but what?
«fills the pot with wine by taking it with a spoon through a window»?

Your brick-toon made me remember the spoon mentioned in the Fu Yue-de translation. The use of a sacrificial spoon is too mentioned in the judgement of hexagram 51 Chen.

I think that 29.4 consist of more than one reading almost like a little story. The first is defining the person as a noble fugitive hunted as a criminal. The second tell, that a sacrifice is OK even when earthen wares are used, if the situation is unusual. The first is related to the hexagram subject danger and the second is related to the text of the judgement.

Maybe there is an additionel third reading, something related to the window?

 

[rosada]

Further thoughts...

Although 29 is titled The Abysmal and is supposedly about being in a very difficult situation, It seems to me it's really about how to cope in what appears to be a difficult situation, and that by acting appropriately we find that the situation is not so difficult at all. Just as 6. Conflict explained how to avoid conflict ("Carefully consider the beginning."), 29. The Abysmal shows how surrounding dangers need have no influence if you "walk in lasting virtue and carry on the business of teaching."
(Insidentally, where does this bit about teaching come from? Is that to say if you find yourself surrounded by low lifes, rather than giving in to fear, assume they are there to learn from you and play the role of teacher?)
With this thought in mind, that in 29 the I Ching teaches us how to handle unfamiliar and potentially threatening situations, I read the changing lines and get a story that seems to be advice to stay calm - with the result that what one had projected as possibly being difficult turns out to be easy when a person takes their challenges one day at a time.
Interesting that Brad made the comment here that it is sometimes scary inside his own head. The point of 29 seems to be that things are dangerous because we see them that way. In fact, we have an expression in English that when we feel scared we get a bad feeling in THE PIT of the stomach. Like the real pit is the one inside us. But anyway, the lines seem to show how every circumstance that at first appears to be dangerous can be handled and the way to handle the difficult situations seems by slowing things down, doing each individual thing that needs to be done without haste or skipping and to simplify needs and expectations.
I did give quite a bit of thought to getojack's feeling that 29.4 is about helping someone who is in distress. I was reading it as saying that when one's mind is calm and attitude is patient, a window of opportunity will open for oneself. But as I consider this, and read Wilhelm who comments on this line, "MUTUAL help in time of danger," I am feeling this line is emphasizing that in times of stress it is the attitude of being of mutual help that makes the positive possible. Just as in my story of my mother and the beauty salon, we were needing a place to rest, but the salon was needing a customer so our connection was not one of victim/rescuer, but one of mutual help. I think this subtle differance in attitude is important. Victim is a pretty low vibration, and Rescuer is probably extreme too. An attitude of "How can we help each other?" however, creates a smooth normal vibration, encouraging plentiful common ordinary miracles.

Today I organized a little tea party for my mother and her tablemate from the retirement home. The table mate's daughter, Lucy came too and confided that today was her 60th birthday. I happened to have picked up a pretty candle at the thrift store this morning. At first I considered if I should "spend" my candle this way, as she also told me her sister was planning a gala dinner so would my candle seems insignificant? But then I remembered this line we're studying and considered it was such a small thing to do, so why not do it? I brought it out, lit it and we sang Happy Birthday.

A simple ritual:
A cup of tea, a bowl of ice cream with it;
Paper plates
Simply handed round the table.
There is certainly no blame in this.

It was nice thing to do, no big deal but later that afternoon back at the Senior Residence I saw Lucy again. I asked if she was about to leave for the dinner party and she told me no, it had been cancelled as her sister had become ill! She did not seems to be too disappointed, but I was so glad we had had the little celebration at the house. I mean, here it was her 60th birthday, she certainly deserved to have A Moment even if it was just a little one. And maybe that is why Lucy herself didn't seem to be too upset the big party had been cancelled. She gotten to experience the ritual, it was sincere, and so that was enough. I think that everything happened on such a small simple scale was key to the success. If it had been a fancier candle I probably wouldn't have bought it in the first place, if Lucy's expectations had been higher she wouldn't have been satisfied with our mini-moment, yet as it was everything was sufficient and we move on.

Coming up now we have 29.5 which is all about knowing when to move on (yes, I am going to end this email soon), and then what I think is probably one of the worst lines in the book, 29.6, which sounds like one being faced with a whole new set of difficulties, will the skills we acquired in lines 1 - 5 carry us through 29.6? Think calm thoughts.

Well, I guess I better post 29.5. Thanks for reading this.