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Memorizing the I Ching Hexagram 18. Ku / Work on What Has Been Spoiled [Decay]

rosada

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18. Ku / Work on What Has Been Spoiled [Decay}

---
- - above KEN KEEPING STILL, MOUNTAIN
- -
---
--- below SUN THE GENTLE, WIND
- -

The Chinese characte ku represents a bowl in whose contents worms are breeding. This means decay. It has come about because the gentle indifferance of the lower trigram has come together with the rigid inertia of the upper, and the result is stagnation. Since this implies guilt, the conditions embody a demand for a removal of the cause. Hence the meaning of the hexagram is not simply "what has been spoiled" but "work on what has been spoiled."
- Wilhelm
 
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lightofreason

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18 Working on what has been spoilt (Decay)
Correcting
In a context of cultivation we utilise discernment.

"KU : rotting; poisonous; intestinal worms, venomous insects; evil magic; disorder, error; pervert by seduction, flattery, unquiet ghost. The ideogram : dish and worms, putrifiction and poisonous decay." ERANOS p251

Bottom is cultivation, top is discernment (quality control) - and so the need for quality control in any cultivation else things start to 'rot' - be it through criminal activity or neglect. There is a sense of a need for perpetual communication when cultivating to ensure small errors, misunderstandings, are not allowed to get out of hand; from a farming perspective there is the need to supply maintenance to growth to ensure a good harvest.

Pairings:

In the binary sequence hexagram 18 pairs with hexagram 46.
This pair reflects issues of 'getting involved', where in 46 we see the increase in entanglement with someone/something, and in 18 we see the involvement in the form of actively focusing on cleaning-up corruption. (and the entanglement reflected in the worms image)

In the binary sequence hexagram 18 opposes hexagram 17.
This pairing reflects differences in (a) developing a 'new' belief system (17) vs (b) correcting the 'errors' that can pop up in 'old' belief systems - errors resulting from neglect or outright corruption (18).

At the LOCAL level we are dealing with an octet of hexagrams with the WIND trigram as base. In this sequence hexagram 18, the focus upon correcting corruptions, 'opposes' hexagram 28, excess, going beyond what is required. More so, the exaggerated sense of excess, of 'going beyond what is required', is reflected in a more balanced format through the focus on correcting corruptions.

In the traditional sequence hexagram 18 pairs with hexagram 17.
BELIEFS:

17 : belief - through establishing to follow; 17, following comes out of a context decribed by hexagram 12 - neutralising

18 : belief - through re-establish through correcting errors; 18, correcting comes out of a context described by hexagram 11 - balancing

In the traditional sequence hexagram 18 opposes hexagram 47.
The generic properties of hexagram 18 reflect the mixing of the generic properties of hexagram 46 with the generic properties of hexagram 11.

The combination of getting more involved, more entangled and considerate of consequences of actions (46) with a focus on establishing harmony (11) is reflected in the properties of hexagram 18.

In the variations on a theme sequence, hexagram 18 complements hexagram 26.
The shared theme here is a focus on maintaining traditions but also not allowing them to corrupt the present.

Spectrum is in the line positions section of http://members.iimetro.com.au/~lofting/myweb/lofting/x100110.html and covers such as infrastructure described by 11 (and so the generic aire of mediating and so harmonising/balancing) and -

18 starts with, keeps coming back to, issues described by 26.
18 has as a source of nourishment issues described by 20.
18 from the outside looks like characteristics of 19.
18 on the inside looks like characteristics of 33.
etc
etc
 

martin

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18. Saturn (Mountain) on top of Mercury (Wood/Wind)

Saturnian structures, systems and methods tend to be rigid. Mercury can make them more flexible and adapt, refine and tune them. But in this hexagram Mercury is 'inside' Saturn and might get trapped in Saturnian rigidity.

Examples:
Bureaucracy, taking things too literal, closed mindedness that cannot think outside its box, 'systematitis', too many rules that hinder Mercurial processes (traffic, information exchange, etc) and are applied without regard to circumstances, stifling traditions, habits and outdated ways, formalism, fundamentalism, ...

Metaphorically, this trapped Mercury can hardly breath, there is a lack of oxygen or fresh air. (the Mercurial sign Gemini rules the lungs)
The atmosphere becomes toxic, things start to rot, 'worms' may appear :eek:.

The key to correcting/healing such a state of affairs (or avoiding it) is Mercury: More communication, more exchange of information, less secrecy, more openness, more flexibility in the application of rules, and so on.
Also the Virgo side of Mercury, precise analysis.
 
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rosada

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18. Devil (Saturn) on top of Magician (Mercury)

In tarot, the Magician or Mercury card represents the mind's ability to manefest physically that which one focuses on mentally. The Devil or Saturn card represents nature's exact mathmatical responce to this universal law. So thus, with Saturn involved, what you see or visualize is exactly what you get with no saving grace included to make up for typos. So it's a feeling of, "Okay, here, this is exactly what you ordered, if it's not what you intended now's the time to make adjustments."

"Because men do not perfectly-believe or imagine. The result is the arts are uncertain when they might be wholly certain."
-Percelsus
 
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bruce_g

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rosada said:
"Because men do not perfectly-believe or imagine. The result is the arts are uncertain when they might be wholly certain."
-Percelsus

I take exception to Paracelsus. Art can not exist in certainty. Faith which is certain is neither art nor alive. When something is no longer living, it decays.
 
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bruce_g

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However, I think the quote must have been taken in too narrow of context. Paracelsus was first an alchemist, and I can not imagine him therefore to imply that gold is drawn from a static view of art or life.

“Let us turn rather to Nature, so admirable in her achievements, and deem her not capable alone of destroying what she has produced at the moment she has begotten them. Is it possible that she will refuse unto man, for whom all was created, what she accords to the stags, the eagles, and the serpents, who do annually cast aside the mournful concomitants of senility, and do assume the most brilliant, the most gracious amenities of the most joyous youth?
Art, it is true, has not as yet arrived at that apex of perfection wherefrom it can renew our youth; but that which was unachieved in the past may be accomplished in the future, a prodigy may be more confidently expected from the fact that in isolated cases it has actually already taken place, as the facts of history make evident. By observing and following the manner in which nature performs such wonders, we may assuredly hope to execute this desirable transformation, and the first condition is an amiable temperament, such as that which was possessed by Moses, of
whom it is written that for one hundred and twenty years his sight never failed him.”

Arnold de Villanova
 

martin

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bruce_g said:
However, I think the quote must have been taken in too narrow of context. Paracelsus was first an alchemist, and I can not imagine him therefore to imply that gold is drawn from a static view of art or life.

True, the thing is that 'the arts' in Rosada's quote doesn't mean art, it means science or magic.
This use of the word 'arts' is still present in the academical title MA, which is short for 'master of arts'.

I suppose the quote comes from 'Isis Unveiled' by H. Blavatsky.
"The will," says Van Helmont, "is the first of all powers. For through the will of the Creator all things were made and put in motion. . . . The will is the property of all spiritual beings, and displays itself in them the more actively the more they are freed from matter." And Paracelsus, "the divine," as he was called, adds in the same strain: "Faith must confirm the imagination, for faith establishes the will. . . . Determined will is a beginning of all magical operations. . . . Because men do not perfectly imagine and believe the result, is that the arts are uncertain, while they might be perfectly certain."

:)
 

rosada

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See above for a real life example of how "working on something that is spoiled" actually works!

While we're on the subject of putting things right, I think taking two days for each line as we've been doing this week is an improvement. Gives the thought the necessary overnight time to filter through the unconcious. Anyway, if there are no objections I am going to continue this pace.

Any other suggestions for adjustments or improvements?
 
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bruce_g

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Martin,

What is the real difference? Whether the art is of medicine, magic or divination, what is open and breathing is alive, and what is enclosed is in a state of decay. When wind no longer blows, air stagnates and growth decays.

Paracelsus states that "Faith must confirm the imagination, for faith establishes the will” and I can agree only so long as faith doesn’t displace will; that is, faith does not become a “thing” to believe in – as in faith in faith or hope in hope - for when that happens faith has become the murderer of life and creativity. Further, “Because men do not perfectly imagine and believe the result, is that the arts are uncertain, while they might be perfectly certain," - this finality and closed-end certainty immobilizes the natural creative process, resulting in decay.
 
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lightofreason

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martin said:
18. Saturn (Mountain) on top of Mercury (Wood/Wind)

Saturnian structures, systems and methods tend to be rigid.

There is an association of Saturn to Science etc and in that association we find 1+1=2 or E=MC^2 etc but there is nothing 'rigid' about this in that the rigid/flexible dichotomy does not apply to universals - it is LOCAL context that applies such.

The link of Saturn with Mountain <b>in general</b> brings out a shared focus on quality control where our algorithms/formulas give us that focus, but Mountain covers suffering and the use of a loss of love etc to seed quality control. IOW Mountain in LOWER covers self-restraint and issues of being blocked or blocking etc that is REACTIVE and when moved to the top position to become PROACTIVE. Thus reflections on the IC hierarchy give better understanding then trying to import poor, too general, Astrology associations.

IF we move to the really generic levels in the neurology, in 18 we have contractive bonding (sharing space with another/others) in a context of contractive binding (sharing time with another/others)

martin said:
Mercury can make them more flexible and adapt, refine and tune them. But in this hexagram Mercury is 'inside' Saturn and might get trapped in Saturnian rigidity.

A false interpretation (or more so a manipulated interpretation?). Since hexagrams are built bottom up, and so from general to particular, from context to text, when interpreting from a trigram perspective the context in 18 is wind not mountain - and so we have mountain operating WITHIN a context set by wind, not the other way around as given by Martin above.

Mountain in top favours the interpretation of covering issues of quality control. Wind in bottom covers issues of cultivation. The theme of issues of quality control in a context of cultivation fits well the overall theme of 18.

IF you want to interpret top as context and bottom as text - go ahead, but over time it will show to be not a 'best fit' form of interpretation.

martin said:
Examples:
Bureaucracy, taking things too literal, closed mindedness that cannot think outside its box, 'systematitis', too many rules that hinder Mercurial processes (traffic, information exchange, etc) and are applied without regard to circumstances, stifling traditions, habits and outdated ways, formalism, fundamentalism, ...

the above is a somewhat confused list of associations in that it covers areas mapped to other hexagrams and as such lacks precision in focusing on 18.

martin said:
Metaphorically, this trapped Mercury can hardly breath, there is a lack of oxygen or fresh air. (the Mercurial sign Gemini rules the lungs)
The atmosphere becomes toxic, things start to rot, 'worms' may appear :eek:.

A false interpretation trying to fit unproven assertions about Astrology representations to hexagram 18... and working off an error (or NOT the 'best fit') in interpreting X within Y. Note carefully that the lungs are associated with five-phase METAL and the trigrams of lake and heaven - indicating a failure in associations by Martin or more so Martin in 'waving of hands' mode as an attempt to fit Astrology into the IC without careful analysis.

martin said:
The key to correcting/healing such a state of affairs (or avoiding it) is Mercury: More communication, more exchange of information, less secrecy, more openness, more flexibility in the application of rules, and so on.
Also the Virgo side of Mercury, precise analysis.

LOL! this so lacks precision! The issue is on quality control operating WITHIN cultivation and there IS a link to avoiding corruptions through continued checking with the other, ensuring small errors or mis-interpretations are fixed early and not allowed to get out of hand. But we can be more precise If we get the IC to tell us the 'correct' method to restore balance to a hex 18 condition seen as unbalanced we get reference to an analogy with hexagram 61.

Hex 61 covers yielding/softening/empathising and so the sense, when applied to 18, of listening to another/others (a) gets one more entangled with them and (b) aids in avoiding corrupt entanglements (the phone chord problem that comes if you dont spend some effort each time you use the phone to disentangle the small entanglement since not to do so will guarantee a massive entanglement forming over time!) - recall in 61 the focus on a judge going to bat for someone considered ill-done by the legal system - IOW a 'corruption' needs to be fixed, fought against etc.

(1) Use the IC to describe the IC (and so the XOR material etc is better than Astrology etc)
(2) BENEATH the IC are the IDM categories to seed the particular IC categories as is the methodology of self-referencing.

The Tarot and Astrology etc are open to investigation since they too operate off self-referencing (and the IDM categories apply) but lack suitable representations when compared to the IC - as such they are vague, more 'waving of hands' etc UNLESS we focus on the full spectrum of Saturn associations or Mercury associations - Martin's associations are vague, do not consider the refinement of upper from lower etc etc etc

Chris.
 

rosada

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I'm not sure exactly what's being said here. It appears to me that Paracelsus is saying that if man could visualize a goal and have faith that it will materialize, it will, absolutely, and the reason it does not is because man's ability to imagine and have faith is flawed. Whereas, Bruce is saying that the reason what is imagined does not always materialize exactly as planned is not because of a flaw in Man, but because Life is more than mathmatical certainty, Life is alive and therefore unpredictable?
 

rosada

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Hey Chris,
Martin and I are having fun exploring the tarot and astrological I Ching connections. Save your outrage for when i publish my I Ching Cookbook. Recipe 18 starts with a bowl of worms..:p
 
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bruce_g

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rosada said:
I'm not sure exactly what's being said here. It appears to me that Paracelsus is saying that if man could visualize a goal and have faith that it will materialize, it will, absolutely, and the reason it does not is because man's ability to imagine and have faith is flawed. Whereas, Bruce is saying that the reason what is imagined does not always materialize exactly as planned is not because of a flaw in Man, but because Life is more than mathmatical certainty, Life is alive and therefore unpredictable?

Not exactly, but not far either. I agree with “that if man could visualize a goal and have faith that it will materialize”, but the distinction I’m making is, if that faith is something fixed and named, it loses its life giving property. The inspiration has now become the master rather than the influence.

Creative action begins with belief. An idea must be activated by faith before it can become something. Like fishing: you cast your net or line, not knowing if fish are there or if they will bite or swim into the net. Yet you cast it anyway.
The challenge is that, when we know that beliefs are our own construct, how can we believe? How to make the belief endure long enough to manifest, if we really don’t believe it is real? That is the magic.

Once belief becomes solid like a mountain, wind can no longer influence it. And so it stagnates.
 

martin

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rosada said:
Hey Chris, Martin and I are having fun exploring the tarot and astrological I Ching connections. Save your outrage for when i publish my I Ching Cookbook. Recipe 18 starts with a bowl of worms..:p

Outrage?! Hmm, good that I have Chris on ignore then and don't see what he writes. I would be tempted to respond likewise .. :mischief:
But I guess he finds fault with the connections between tarot/astrology and the IC?
Perhaps it's good - also for others who didn't read earlier posts about this and wonder what it is all about - to repeat what I have said earlier:

There are resemblances between trigrams and planets (and tarot cards) but you cannot say trigram x = planet y = tarot card z. The planet Mercury is not the same as the trigram wood/wind, for example. There are similarities but also differences.

All I try to do is paint portraits of hexagrams (and lines) with astrological concepts. I focus on the similarities that I see but such portraits will never be accurate and they are not meant to be.
And astrology is also not that standarized, so another astrologer would probably paint a different picture.
In other words, this is not science, call it 'art' if you like. Or, yes, fun. :)

About that recipe, Rosada, is it fried Devil + boiled Magician? Hot! :D
 
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martin

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bruce_g said:
Once belief becomes solid like a mountain, wind can no longer influence it. And so it stagnates.

Couldn't agree more. I don't know about Paracelcus but the theosophists (following Blavatsky) certainly did a lot of 'fixing and naming' and so they needed a Krishnamurti to open a few windows and show them the Unknown.
It seems that most didn't listen to him, though.
 
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lightofreason

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bruce_g said:
...Once belief becomes solid like a mountain, wind can no longer influence it. And so it stagnates.

? LOL! this person has never watched the eagles/hawks in the mountains exploit the extreme winds! ... nore been pushed by such winds towards the edge of a cliff - THAT certainly can influence one's beliefs!... and then there are the wind-driven storms that feed the erosion of those mountains etc etc etc (and so wind erodes belief)
 
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lightofreason

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rosada said:
Hey Chris,
Martin and I are having fun exploring the tarot and astrological I Ching connections. Save your outrage for when i publish my I Ching Cookbook. Recipe 18 starts with a bowl of worms..:p

Outrage? huh? - I gave a thought out commentary on the use of Astrology/Tarot on a thread trying to uncover the meaning of an IC hexagram where you ignore the method of the IC describing itself for some vague, waving-of-hand material!

Have you bothered to go through the spectrum for 18 and flesh out all of the fine details? doubt it - probably think it is all too hard! Get real Rosada, if you want to learn about the hexagrams than try and do it properly - emmerse yourself and THEN pop out the other side. Your emmersion to date have been 'shallow' - time to get into the deep end! ;-)

Oh and please suggest to your mate Martin that it comes across as rude for Martin to write comments about posts I have written but Martin has not read. (and you seem to have mis-interpreted as 'outrage'! LOL!)
 
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bruce_g

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Chris, that’s all true, but it's not the picture of 18. Wind over mountain is 53, an image of flight. Wind and water do win out eventually, though, as all things 59.
 

luz

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where you ignore the method of the IC describing itself for some vague, waving-of-hand material!
Rosada, I think little Chris needs a bit more attention! :D
 
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lightofreason

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bruce_g said:
Chris, that’s all true, but it's not the picture of 18. Wind over mountain is 53, an image of flight. Wind and water do win out eventually, though, as all things 59.

smokescreen! lol!

flight? yeh right....

53 Development (Gradual Progress)
Maturing
In a context of self-restraint we utilise influence.

"CHIEN : advance by degrees; pentrate slowly and surely, as water; stealthily; permeate throughout; influence, affect. The ideogram: water and cut."ERANOS p567

.. anything in the infrastructure about flight?.... infrastructure is described by analogy to 63 - no flight there, more validation of heading towards, reaching, re-establishing stability, completion, correct sequence. -- all generic qualities seeding maturing.

you guys are being too waving of hands - grasping whatever you can to make associations but they are vague, lack precision in understanding 18 - the spectrum gives you the most precise general descriptions of 18 through the use of analogy to the IC itself - THEN comes local context specialisations.
 
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lightofreason

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lightangel said:
Rosada, I think little Chris needs a bit more attention! :D

No - the I CHING needs more attention. Most are treating it with disrespect due to their ignorance in understanding what they are dealing with where THAT covers the properties of self-referencing. Just as you can describe yourself, so the IC can describe itself. Understand that and you will get a lot more out of the IC than seeing it as some pithy divining system!

Move up to the 21st century dude.
 
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bruce_g

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lightofreason said:
smokescreen! lol!

flight? yeh right....

53 Development (Gradual Progress)
Maturing
In a context of self-restraint we utilise influence.

"CHIEN : advance by degrees; pentrate slowly and surely, as water; stealthily; permeate throughout; influence, affect. The ideogram: water and cut."ERANOS p567

.. anything in the infrastructure about flight?.... infrastructure is described by analogy to 63 - no flight there, more validation of heading towards, reaching, re-establishing stability, completion, correct sequence. -- all generic qualities seeding maturing.

you guys are being too waving of hands - grasping whatever you can to make associations but they are vague, lack precision in understanding 18 - the spectrum gives you the most precise general descriptions of 18 through the use of analogy to the IC itself - THEN comes local context specialisations.

How sad. Back into the bin with you.
 

Sparhawk

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lightofreason said:
Move up to the 21st century dude.

Lightangel is a "Dudette," if I'm not mistaken... :D

Carry on,

L
 

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sparhawk said:
Lightangel is a "Dudette," if I'm not mistaken... :D

Carry on,

L

Thanks for defending my honor, Luis :D

But I don't think Chris keeps track of these things:rolleyes:.
To him we are not individuals, just a swarm of belligerent ants, hence his copy/pasting... he only has one response, one argument.. one size fits all...

Although I must admit I had not seen him talk about 'disrespect' before, I think he is getting more religious...:rofl:
 

rosada

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Chris,
The title of this thread is "Memorizing The I Ching." If people want to get into deep philosophical discussions about the meaning of the hexagrams here, fine and dandy, but if someone wants to post, "18.Work on What Has been Spolied rhymes with Eighteen Worms Fattened and Boiled" because it helps them memorize the line, that's totally in keeping with the spirit of this thread.
I thought your original post on this hexagram was particularly insightful and I suspect not everyone has read it, which is unfortunate because you made some good points. I wish you would value your insights more. If you did, you would care enough to write them up in a manner others could relate to.
By the way, I am probably one of the most superficial people on the planet, but also one of the sanest. So what can I say? Works for me.
Rosada
 

rosada

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18. THE JUDGEMENT

WORK ON WHAT HAS BEEN SPOILED
Has supreme success.
It furthers one to cross the great water.
Before the starting point, three days.
After the starting point, three days.
 
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rosada

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I haven't been able to get your window to open, Bruce! Phooey..

I have been thinking of 18 as meaning now conciousness goes into the subconcious, like dreaming.
My thinking:
15, Group MInd, no individual ego. Yet all things have number so even with equals, one ego is more equal than others.
16. The most perfectly balanced ego rests in the center and guides the Group Mind. From this eye of the eternal, all is in perfect harmony, but to all others there is change. Some are ahead, some are behind. The one who is felt to be most ahead is discribed in 16. It's only fun for Ego to only lead or follow a parade so far, then it gets bored with it's own limited choices and chooses to find someone smarter- A Guide - to Follow..
17. The Guide leads one to relax and become aware of everything one resisted and was oblivious to previously. 17 is translated as going to sleep, but this could simply mean going into the subconcious while still being concious, i.e. dreaming...
18. Ego choosing to relinquish waking life and follow chi into the land of dreams, there to see, understand, what maybe "wrong" and recreate the physical world.

So I'm seeing the Wind in 18 as being Conciousness/Chi inside the Mountain, which I am seeing as being Physical Reality, or Group Belief. As conciousness goes into the world of Dreaming we see patterns our ego beliefs had obstructed us from seeing? Now with our ego asleep, or made equal to every other conciousness in the subconcious world, we can, like Wind stiring up the grains of sand that make the Mountain, disconnect old thought creations and hopefully create new ones, connect the dots in a new way. but conversation must go round three times to be sure the situation / vision is trully understood?
 
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lightofreason

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sparhawk said:
Lightangel is a "Dudette," if I'm not mistaken... :D

Carry on,

L

that depends on how rigid/pointed she gets ;-) She was being pointed, aggressive, competitive, so her "balls" were showing ;-) ... although the phrase used could be interpreted as she being catty! hhssss....! ;-)
 
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lightofreason

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rosada said:
Chris,
...I thought your original post on this hexagram was particularly insightful and I suspect not everyone has read it, which is unfortunate because you made some good points. I wish you would value your insights more.

but I do - that is what IC+ is about, insights into meaning in general (IDM) applied to a particular example (the IC). My analysis of the IC is a revelation to some, but most dont get it. As such I enjoy the company of those who do and dont care about those who dont but as I continue thinking and writing things may start to sink in! (and for some antagonistic before, it is starting to sink in - due to the demonstration of the precision possible using IC+ as compared to the traditional material that was insightful but is lacking in precision and basic understandings of what we are dealing with)

If others are not prepared to think a bit more and so shift themselves from 10th century BC thinking then it is their loss. not mine. If someone does not like "1 + 1 = 2" due to their values demanding a 'nicer looking' font then they are not for me since they show a mix of ignorance and vanity so why bother with them? ;-) Either they will age and eventually die wondering "'what happened?" or they will wake up to themselves and see there is a LOT more going on then they imagined.

I play 'percentage' football - I plug away knowing that good training and discipline will start to increase posession and scoring ;-) ... add to that 'quantum' learning where seemingly unreleted prose will over time be shown to be connected as we link the dots.

Oh -- and you will NOT get the insights I have by following the traditional sequence and rigidly sticking to Wilhelm, Legge etc etc. MY insights come out of IC+ and a more 21st century AD perspective on the IC. .. IOW your exercise in memorising the IC appears to be more so memorising the 'traditional' IC - which is only a small part of a very large whole... to which my contributions may help those interested.

Chris.
 

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