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Any advice or comments ? Well I worry you are travelling so far from the answer you lost the actual answer in favour of the alternate nuclear ...not sure if that is your invention ?However, I'm actually finding this alternate nuclear pattern relating better:
1,2,3,3,4,5 and 2,3,4,3,4,5 and 2,3,4,4,5,6 (for hex 50: 28, 43, 14)
Any thoughts about nuclear variations? Is there a better name for the second set of nuclears than my calling them an "alternate nuclear pattern"? Thank you in advance for any comments or advice.
So although you had 50.4.5>57 you went looking for 28 and found it but why not stick with the reading you got ? If your actual reading was 28 you would have cast 28 and okay you managed to find the 28 in there but it just seems a little remote to me.Using nuclear hexagrams to help clarify my readings for quite some time now (full explanation of nuclears here), I've found them very useful. However, recently I noticed a slight twist when I had 50.4.5>57 in a weekly open reading. Here's what I posted about it:
"I was looking at the nuclears last night (44, 43, 38) and they have their basic story, but at the end I found myself saying 'but, I feel soooo exhausted, is there a hex 28 in there somewhere??' And, lo and behold, there it is in 1,2,3, 3,4,5, kind of front and center towards the bottom.
It wasn't mind-numbing at all. Forming nuclear hexagrams is the kind of math I can handle lol.At the risk of my post looking numerically mind-numbing, I agree the nuclears give a lot of useful supporting background information and haven't even gotten into the opposites or contrasting ones, etc.!
Agreed!Freeda - I'm excited for you and hope you have lots to share when you return!
Ricardo, a few questions about what you wrote:The Chinese tend to just use lines 2,3,4 (lower trigram) and 3,4,5 (upper trigram) of the original hexagram to make a nuclear hexagram to know more about their present situation.
Thanks for clarifying. To refer to "The Chinese" seemed why too broad a statement. And what is also true is that other people (Chinese and otherwise) use different methods of approaching a reading, such as using the nuclear trigrams (instead of the hexagrams). And some might not look at the 'nuclears' at all.I meant some people i am aware of who use the I Ching.
I have been talking with a few people about these 'other' nuclear hexgrams - the upper and lower nuclear hexagrams. I'm wondeirng who or what the source of these are?.... I found the nuclears interesting as the initial encounter / presenting challenge / entry point (lower nuclear hexagram), inner work (middle nuclear), and mastery/higher potential (upper nuclear) ....
Its heavily used in Mei Hua(Plum Blossom), as "progress hexagram", though there are many other names.I have been talking with a few people about these 'other' nuclear hexgrams - the upper and lower nuclear hexagrams. I'm wondeirng who or what the source of these are?
I have seen a few treads and an WikiWing entry about nuclear hexgrams, but they dont' really identify the source or author or originator of these. Someone mentiond one Yi practitioner whom I'm not familar with, and Steven Karcher is also mentioned, but I think for Karcher, these are getting mixed up with his idea of 'seasonal' hexgrams - which are created in a different way then the nuclear hexgrams, and carry different meanings.
So, does anyone know where this idea of the upper and lower nuclear hexgrams comes from? Does it have it's roots in older or historic Yi studies (as I believe the 'usual' nuclear hexgrams/trigarms do), or is this a more recent 20th/21st century idea?
Yea, 234 makes lower trigram, 345 makes the upper of the middle hexagram(progress hexagram or transition or whatever we want to call it).Hi Gmulii
When you say
"Its heavily used in Mei Hua(Plum Blossom), as "progress hexagram", though there are many other names.
So much that some years ago I added it in the old calculator. "
Were you referring to a nuclear hexagram of 234 345, or one of the further types?
That's fine, but what I was specifically asking about are the 'other' nuclear hexagrams, made of lines: 1,2,3,2,3,4 and 3,4,5,4,5,6Yea, 234 makes lower trigram, 345 makes the upper of the middle hexagram(progress hexagram or transition or whatever we want to call it).
Thanks, I thought you were referring to the other kinds which appear to me to risk being part of a modern trend where every discernible pattern becomes imbued with some pertinent meaning.Yea, 234 makes lower trigram, 345 makes the upper of the middle hexagram(progress hexagram or transition or whatever we want to call it).
Hi FreeddaThat's fine, but what I was specifically asking about are the 'other' nuclear hexagrams, made of lines: 1,2,3,2,3,4 and 3,4,5,4,5,6
Maybe I didn't make that clear enough, so I edited my post above to clarify what I'm asking about.
Thanks My_Key: I was asking where they come from, what is the source? history?I get the idea that it's a behind the scenes stepwise thing
I am trying to find where I had come across the newer lower nuclear and upper nuclear models but still the little grey cells are not playing ball.The nuclear hexagrams which go beyond 234, 345 seem to be a recent thing with no pedigree. Why did the Chinese of old not use them? After all they would have been aware of many of these dimensions. Also who says that these additional nuclear hexagrams mean anything particular at all?
" two inner or 'nuclear' trigrams have attracted scholars' attention since Han times (206 BC to 220 AD............ When the two trigrams are placed one on top of the other, we obtain a hu gua , a 'twisted hexagram' also called, in modern use a'nuclear hexagram'.
These 'counter hexagrams' "correspond to a shift in emphasis - often a shift in the opposite direction compared to that of the primary hexagram, which generally is to be avoided. The 'counter hexagram' therefore points to something that is not the case or that should not be done in the given situation"
That's how I would see them - which looks to be at odds with Ritsema / Sabbadini's perspective. But clearly the nuclear hexagram has been around for a long time - since the Han. The other two are still not tied down in respect of origin or whether they have anything that has been proven to add to a reading.......the nuclear hexagram or trigrams are the forces acting beneath the hexagram driving it with that given underlying quality.
I've been focusing on working with the trigrams and their associated imagery and meanings. At the same time, I am working with the idea that 'less is more' or that 'too much is not enough', and how I might apply that,... How could Kun be a hidden potential of Jaws (Hex. 27)? ...
Absolutely!I've been focusing on working with the trigrams and their associated imagery and meanings. At the same time, I am working with the idea that 'less is more' or that 'too much is not enough', and how I might apply that,
I just finished Harmen's 8-week online course about working with the tirgams and moving lines, and I have a different take-away of what he taught us about the nuclear trigrams:Harmen Mesker sees the nuclear trigrams as that which is blocking the 'repair' of the change. So again we have the idea of them being a contra force. I am not so sure.
PO Box 6945,
+44 (0)20 3287 3053 (UK)
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