What should happen to Putin? 27.1.6>2

[rosada]

I was thinking about the idea that what happens on earth is by group agreement, that is, that what we consider "reality" is a giant multi-dimensional story we're writing together. So I asked the I Ching, "If this is a group story we're writing what should be the next episode, what should we have happen to Putin?" I received 27.1.6 The Mouth changing to 2. The Eternal Nothingness.
I see this as saying
27.1 Show Putin believing he is undefeatable, then show him this isn't working for him anymore and show how he is at a loss for what to do.
27.6 Have him choose to "cross the great river" by his own hand. Perhaps by drinking poison or hanging himself with his own karate belt?
2. Show him being buried in an unmarked grave.
Thus he dissolves into the vast undifferentiated universe.
The End

 

[Liselle]

I don't particularly think those lines and hexagrams mean those specific things, but much of the world is doing its best to disrupt his/Russia's system of nourishment. He'll have to deal with that, maybe line 6 has to do with that. The steps of change for the two moving lines are 23 and 24, Stripping and Returning/Renewal which seems to go along with that. Renewal will be needed, at least, trying to get along without things the sanctions are stripping away.

(For anyone who's not familiar, steps of change are what each moving line changes to by itself. 27.1 changes to 23 and 27.6 changes to 24.)

Maybe you could get something like "He reaps what he sows" out of it? Not sure.

 

[rosada]

I’ll fry to be more clear:
27.1 Says you let your magic tortoise go and look at me with mouth hanging down. This line gives me the idea to pick up the plot where Putin has invaded Ukraine and thereby lost the moral high ground and thus the world, God, The Source no longer supports him.

Then the plot thickens..

27.6 I would then show Putin becoming totally deranged thinking he is Source, thinking he is the Master of the Universe. Further the line promises success in crossing the great water. “Crossing the great water” can mean death and as the line suggests he acts as the source, I can see this as meaning he dies by his own hand.

Now the tricky part. Should 2. The vast undifferentiated eternity, as the resulting hexagram mean he only offs himself in the tradition of Adolph Hitler, or does he try to take everyone with him like Jim Jones? Stay tuned...

Anyway, the above interpretation is just me trying to come up with a believable conclusion to this horror story - not a prediction, more like a suggestion. If you don’t see the lines and hexagrams as meaning these things that’s okay - but it’s my story and I’m sticking to it!

 

[radiofreewill]

"What should happen to Putin?"
27.1.6 > 2 ~ Without nourishment, he perishes.

Just when Putin needs more yang (stability, clarity, unity), he loses what little he's got...

What happened?

Another way of reading the toss is:

Divining by the word is a dead end; whereas divining by the Spirit will get you through.

Line 1 ~ The cracks in his 'numinous' turtles are telling Putin a Story (based on words) about his unique and special separate self that he believes is true, as if a mirror is answering back to his blushing question, "Who is the fairest of them all?"

The Duke of Zhou is saying in this line statement that the cracks in the bones don't speak in words by means of the jaws, but rather by a 'knowing' thru the spirit, instead? "We have no use for the jaws," he says, "Look, we've hung ours up on the wall."

Abandon your 'numinous' story-telling jaws, or else...

Line 6 ~ Remove the threatening stories from your jaws, if you want to get thru this?

Because, if you don't, then all that your stories will amount to, in the end, is Nothing.

In my humble opinion, the difference between Ukraine and Putin is:

Putin, on the one hand, believes that his stories about himself and his role are divinely endorsed: "Only I can stop the Ukrainian Nazis from commiting Genocide in the Donbas! You must listen to me and do what I say!"

The principled and courageous Ukrainians, on the other hand, appear to be consistently resting in the awareness that Spirit, the presence of the Lord ~ greater than any story, including Putin's story ~ is the final arbiter of What Is: Dear Lord, show your loving and obedient children the right way to please you?

So, who should we expect to get nourished here, and, therefore, who is likely to perish?

 

[Trojina]

On this thread there is a connected question

40.3.6 > 50 What's the probability of Russia invading Ukraine?

Every once in awhile I will ask something like this. Line 3 'Shouldering a burden while also riding in a carriage Invites the arrival of bandits. Constancy, shame.' This to me means that Putin has used his propaganda within to the point he couldn't "back down" if he wanted to. He's stirred...

www.onlineclarity.co.uk

From there

So I asked a bunch, but I asked, "Will Putin be stopped soon?" The response was 1.6 to 43. After searching the threads available, the answer I liked the best and thought was explained well was from an old thread.


I can see where recklessness would be the downfall. To me it's been more than reckless to long already and I pray this ends soon for Ukraine. I don't want to see that country destroyed like Syria was. Every day I hope someone stops this man.

1.6 seems to describe Putin well.


I pray that he dies or is removed from power. I see on the news here that he is increasingly isolated, no country is with him, even China pulls back, even his own advisors who sit so far away from him at his very long table look very worried. Regarding his threat of nuclear attack some comfort themselves with the thought that his aides and closest advisors would actually remove him if that were imminent. I wonder what they are waiting for, he's not sane any more, they must see that, they must see he will devastate Russia.

Seeing him sitting at those big long tables he is a picture of 1.6. Apparently, I heard somewhere, he is absolutely paranoid about getting Covid and so still keeps those absurd distances at his table

 

[Trojina]

And regarding 27.1.6>2 it looks like a collapse back into earth.

In the movies at the end, like in Harry Potter (which I don't know well) the evil one is consumed. For example, I'm thinking fantasy type films, the evil one will collapse into ashes and fly away or melt away. It's like they fragment, or turn into a dark smoke that rises up and vanishes. That is what the cast reminds me of but it is also a very empty cast, as if there's no real food there just an empty mouth.

There isn't any benefit for him or Russia in his actions, however much devastation he causes and of course he throws away the lives of his own young Russian soldiers who didn't even know they were going to war, there is nothing there really that he can ever win. He will never win Ukraine it will just appear that he has but they will never stop fighting.

If only the earth would swallow him.

 

[rosada]

"Without nourishment he perishes."
This reminds me of the New Age belief that what we give our attention to is strengthened and therefore perhaps these lines are advising it's important not to focus on the negative and thus by not giving Putin the attention he craves he will perish.

Are you interpreting 27.1,6 as the I Ching saying "Stop using the IC to make up scary stories and turn to spirit for guidance." In other words, the Universe is NOT a story we are making up but powerful guidance from a higher consciousness, here to help us to move into greater awareness, to cross the great river? Way cool.

 

[Liselle]

I certainly didn't mean 24 in the sense that he and Russia would succeed in renewal, just that the rest of the world will put them in a position where it will be required of him/them for their own survival. Your question was "What should we have happen to Putin?"

Maybe something like "You break it, you buy it" where he's chosen to break things, so everyone will make him "buy" the consequences.

WikiWing has a number of references about 24 that it's starting from scratch. 23 and 24 are maybe best suited for natural processes like what trees do, lose their leaves (23), then regrow them. Having to do something like that manually is a big job and maybe impossible.

Anyway 23 and 24 are the steps of change. The cast hexagrams might be more like he'll have to be/ figure out a whole new system of nourishment for Russia since the world has taken the old one away. The ruble is worthless and so forth. He and they are back to bare earth as Trojina said.

I mean, imagine if the dollar or pound was suddenly worthless and the rest of the world shut us out. That'd be devastating, not a slap on the wrist. Of course we hear Putin had tried to prepare for it. But as an answer to your question it's probably the best we can all do. No one wants a nuclear war.

 

[Trojina]

This reminds me of the New Age belief that what we give our attention to is strengthened and therefore perhaps these lines are advising it's important not to focus on the negative and thus by not giving Putin the attention he craves he will perish.

I do not see why the lines would be saying that as it isn't true. It would be like saying the way to get rid of Hitler was not think about Hitler or Trump or your mother in law. It reminds me of a small child's awareness of when they shut their eyes their eyes the other person disappears. Not thinking about Putin is surely impossible given he has recently threatened the use of the nuclear weapons, is terrorising a nation and committing genocide and war crimes.

Are you interpreting 27.1,6 as the I Ching saying "Stop using the IC to make up scary stories and turn to spirit for guidance." In other words, the Universe is NOT a story we are making up but powerful guidance from a higher consciousness, here to help us to move into greater awareness, to cross the great river? Way cool.

I don't recognise anything I have said about 27.1.6 in your words. You were asking about Putin so I wrote about Putin. Sadly he's not a story he's real. The only reason Putin is making way less progress than he hoped is because real people are fighting and dying. I've seen footage of individuals standing in the way of tanks ...I mean it's incredible the bravery being shown in so many situations and I do think on some level the support of the world will strengthen the Ukrainian people but also actual help is needed.

 

[my_key]

"If this is a group story we're writing what should be the next episode, what should we have happen to Putin?"
27<>2

The next star-studded episode should show Putin encountering change as he corrects the things that nourish him through his embracing a greater flexibility.

The script being written within the group story should show:

27.1: Him seeing the error of his ways and recognising how he has closed himself off to the way
27.6: That he accomplishes successfully his facing of his ghosts and demons and that he turns as a result of his new found wisdom to make amends as best he can.

...or it might be nothing at all like that.

 

[rosada]

Oh very nice, my-key
Well, he can do it the hard way or the harder way...

 

[radiofreewill]

How about:

​

The oracle says that you don't even need the jaws to know that Putin should share the same fate as...

​

...the Yin Tyrant.

 

[my_key]

Oh very nice, my-key
Well, he can do it the hard way or the harder way...

Rosada
I've been pondering on this interpretation of your question overnight - something nagging at me which I have realised is 'should'.

From your question you ask "....what should we have happen to Putin?"

'Should' carries a weight of what is more likely to happen and even a sense of obligation or duty bound up in a behaviour directed by some belief of correctness

So the group story that we all collectively direct into this situation should be 27<>2. My nagging concern turned out to be I wonder what the group story will actually be though?

If Yi is being literal to the should-ness in your question it may require another question for Yi to comment on the actual group story that is currently being collectively written.

 

[rosada]

Yes, I agree. I think I was feeling something similar in my comment #7 as a response to Radiofreewill. I was trying to say that 27.1 could mean the IC is saying stop with the 'should' stories, by thinking your thoughts are creating this you lose your connection to higher power and then 27.6 "Origin of nourishment" could be interpreted as "Ask how Higher Consciousness has this story turn out."
So my-key, good question, "What will the group story actually be?" I think you should be the one to Do The Toss!

 

[my_key]

Ok Rosada, let's have a bit of a fun exploration of the should vs the actual.

"What will the group story actually be?" 26.6 <> 11

Here it seems that the collective consciousness of the group is biding its time. The actual group story will only become fully manifest when the time is right (26) through reversing the manner of how things are being addressed currently(11).

Yi paints a picture through the image of 26 that what is building up is an accumulation of ancient virtue that will be born through wisdom being generated and by the collective group embodying the words and deeds of our ancestors in similar situations. The challenge that lies deep within the group story that is actually being written now is described in the nuclear (54) and is for the group story to remain aligned to the harmony of what is eternal and to be able to differentiate and understand what is only transitory.

This last sentence paraphrases Wilhelm who describes the nature of this time of 54 in his commentary like this

But every relationship between individuals bears within it the danger that wrong turns may be taken, leading to endless misunderstandings and disagreements. Therefore it is necessary constantly to remain mindful of the end. If we permit ourselves to drift along, we come together and are parted again as the day may determine. If on the other hand a man fixes his mind on an end that endures, he will succeed in avoiding the reefs that confront the closer relationships of people.

The transformational potential held for the collective in this next episode of the group story, within 26, is shown through its shadow of 39.
Here the collective are being advised, as best practice for transformation, that when writing their story, to turn their attention back onto themselves such that they can transform their character first.

This, I guess being the best way to remain aligned with the eternal harmony and not become engulfed in the transitory. This change of heart could well be be what is going to take a bit of time for the great to accumulate around.

Wilhelm again comments:

Difficulties and obstructions throw a man back upon himself. While the inferior man seeks to put the blame on other persons, bewailing his fate, the superior man seeks the error within himself, and through this introspection the external obstacle becomes for him an occasion for inner enrichment and education.

However, it appears that the script writers have decided on a positive ending with 26.6.

One attains the way of heaven.

Success.

There does not appear to be any indication of in what manner the way of heaven will be woven into the group story though. Perhaps the success will be remaining aligned to the eternal harmony rather than the transitory or will be something akin to 'inner enrichment and education'. Who know? So a final word from Wilhelm on the way of heaven.

The time of obstruction is past. The energy long dammed up by inhibition forces its way out and achieves great success. This refers to a man who is honored by the ruler and whose principles now prevail and shape the world.

The actual group story indicated by Yi
via Wilhelm 26<>11:THE TAMING POWER OF THE GREAT it's / through PEACE
via Huang 26<>11: GREAT ACCUMULATION it's / through ADVANCE
via Hilary 26<>11: GREAT TAMING it's / through FLOW
via Karcher 26<>11: GREAT ACCUMULATES (Gathering the Spirit) it's / through PERVADING (Great Rituals)

... or it might well mean nothing like this at all.

 

[radiofreewill]

I like the simplicity of:

Obstruction​

​

Removed​

​

Peace​

 

[my_key]

I like the simplicity of:

Obstruction​

View attachment 4639​

Removed​

View attachment 4640​

Peace​

radiofreewill
I would appreciate it if you are able to help me out here.
Obstruction is Hex 12. You show Hex 41 Decrease.
I love the simplicity of the shown trigrams too - taking the lid off is how I'd see it. Making the sacrifice suggested by 41.
Just wondering your thoughts regarding connections to the either the 'should' or the 'actual' casts made here. I'm not seeing the step you have taken.

 

[radiofreewill]

Thanks, my_key,

Here's how I'm reading it:

Hexagram 26 ~ mountain over heaven ~ changing line 6​

​

...where mountain (obstruction) changes to earth (straight, level, easy)...​

​

...resulting in Peace, Hexagram 11, the flow of heaven's highway.​

Sorry for the confusion regarding the use of 'obstruction' to refer to mountain, as opposed to Hexagram 12?

In terms of the correlation between should and actual, my casts seem to have had a consistent trajectory leading up to rosada's and your's:

2/11/22 "What will Putin do in Ukraine?" 53.5 > 52​

He will make gradual progress for 3 years, but get stopped. The hunters fail to bag the goose. Ukraine survives.

2/19/22 "What will happen if Russia invades Ukraine in the next 10 days?" 9.5 > 26​

Russia will try to tame the small (Ukraine), but Allies will rally to the Truth of the Ukrainian cause, resulting in the taming of the great (Russia) instead!

Russia invaded on 2/24/22.

rosada's toss from 3/3/22 ~ "What should happen to Putin?" 27.1.6 > 2​

Without nourishment, he perishes. He should share the same fate as the yin tyrant.

Your toss from today, 3/6/22 ~ "What will the group story actually be?" 26.6 > 11​

With the obstruction removed there will be Peace.

In this case, the Mandate of Heaven appears to be with Ukraine, and not with Putin.

So, taking Putin as the obstruction, with the understanding that obstruction means not-peace, then removing the obstruction should, and will, bring peace, is how I'm reading it?

Now comes the part, imho, where the Ukrainian people, and their Allies, make the necessary sacrifices in order to vanquish tyranny while fighting under the banner of the Mandate of Heaven.

This may take some time, possibly up to 3 years, but the cause will be righteous each and every day.

And, I'm hearing the oracle say ~ echoing the great Zhou Conquest way ~ that David will slay Goliath, again.

Keep the faith and never give in to tyranny!

Stay Strong Ukraine!

 

[veavea]

Huh. Before I saw this post I asked the Yi how can we stop what is happening, how can we stop the Russians? 27.1 > 23. I didn’t know how to interpret this, or whether it was aimed at me and my attitude.

mention from Trojan’s about the earth swallowing Putin, I am worried the earth will swallow all of us and be poisoned for the next billion years (or whatever, don’t correct me on my inaccurate timeline for radiation poisoning).

 

[BlindedFox]

"If this is a group story we're writing what..."
27.1.6 to 2; the word "if" in your question, suggests to me that the ICHING is talking directly to you, not about the question you wanted to post. High probability upper trigram Mountain 27.6, is falling from the heights, danger in trying to get through rational thinking on top of this fear that war and suffering creates in you. To alleviate the pain, you search for reassurement in others or other things - 27.1, the lower jaw is waiting for you to close this type of thinking down, trigram thunder keeping underground. You need to search for real substance (maybe grounded and pragmatic thoughts and questions) but the time is too turbulent for now.

 

[Trojina]

I didn’t know how to interpret this, or whether it was aimed at me and my attitude.

I think it's always worth at least considering that. In any question there might be a comment on what's behind one's reason for asking. In this case I don't know, that's generally something the querent has a better idea of .

The clearest answer I saw here so far was given to a Ukrainian asking about going home here. Absolutely crystal clear answers

Possible War Scenario — 44 UC

Hello, I’ve been learning from this forum for years and it’s a first time I decided to ask for help. I’m Ukrainian and recently me and my partner decided that it’s better be safe than sorry and left the country in case there’s going to be some real invasion from Russia as it is reported by...

www.onlineclarity.co.uk

Huh. Before I saw this post I asked the Yi how can we stop what is happening, how can we stop the Russians?

When you say 'how can we' who is the 'we'? Are you talking about your nation or yourself?

After all the questions on the Ukraine here I'd have assumed people might want to help in any way they could yet only 2 people bothered to open the link here that can disable Russian propaganda sites

Please play (and pray) for Ukraine

I received this from a Ukrainian relative today. I have no idea how it works just passing it on. Apparently even if you don't play it and it is open in your browser it attacks Russian propaganda sites. 🇺🇦🇺🇦🇺🇦🇺🇦🇺🇦🇺🇦🇺🇦🇺🇦🇺🇦🇺🇦🇺🇦🇺🇦🇺🇦🇺🇦🇺🇦🇺🇦🇺🇦🇺🇦🇺🇦🇺🇦🇺🇦🇺🇦🇺🇦🇺🇦 "Chatting with the brothers. Alive...

www.onlineclarity.co.uk

This lack of interest in helping put me off replying on these forums anymore to be honest.

In Ukraine each civilian has to fight for themselves and their country and that is how surely in asking how to stop Putin it has to be for us to find ways to strengthen Ukraine? Much military help has been denied by the US and the UK and other other countries through fear of this escalating into nuclear war. I've heard on TV people say 'the Ukrainians will have to win it on their soil, we cannot intervene' and yet people also say Ukrainians cannot win, they don't have the weapons and the sheer force the Russians have although Russia certainly isn't making the speedy progress it thought it would. So if you want to help strengthen Ukraine so they can win because your country will not help as much as it could then you have to find to find ways to do that. I don't know, it seems like donating money and medicine and nappies is about all we can do. There's rallies of course to pressure governments to do more but I don't know realistically at what point the risk of escalation outweighs the good. For sure in the UK they could do far more about the Oligarchs living here, they could I think cripple Putin a little more (I don't know) but they don't.

 

[veavea]

When you say 'how can we' who is the 'we'? Are you talking about your nation or yourself?

Not sure, it was a stupid kind of desperate question really on my part, I wouldn’t have shared it but for the fact it was the same line as Rosada received.

This lack of interest in helping put me off replying to people here to be honest.

I didn’t even see this

 

[Trojina]

I just edited my post to add more about how to stop the Russians.. It is only at this point by strengthening Ukraine as they are the ones fighting alone so it's down to them. So make them stronger in any way in your power whether through prayer, donation, political lobbying or showing solidarity openly.

I do want to add that when I/we say 'stop the Russians' it's not the actual Russian people who want this war it is Putin. I heard an American politician got into trouble for advising Russians to kill him? I couldn't understand that, he needs to be killed asap. Every moment he lives genocide is taking place in the Ukraine, innocent people being slaughtered, bombed, crushed because he thinks Ukraine isn't real.

It is real and it will never willingly be assimilated into Russia. Even at this point, facing the opposition he faces Putin won't back down and so it seems to me strengthening the military, the people and the refugees of the Ukraine is the only real way to help. All I have done so far is to go on a rally, donate money and post a link in Open Space oh and pray which feels hard at the moment.

 

[veavea]

Of course I meant the Russian invaders, not the Russian people. But it doesn’t matter what the Russian people want as they’re not running the show either way. Thousands arrested for trying to protest. They are getting disinformation about Russia saving Ukraine from Nazis.

I agree putin is the problem but if countries plan to assassinate him they probably should do it surreptitiously so he doesn’t launch a nuke on them beforehand.

 

[Trojina]

I agree putin is the problem but if countries plan to assassinate him they probably should do it surreptitiously so he doesn’t launch a nuke on them beforehand.

no this wasn't about other countries killing him but his own aides and assistants. I'm sure many of them are getting pretty concerned. The American was advising Russians to kill Putin. I think when he announced his intent with nuclear weapons they were terrified, they don't want that. If they could just shoot him in the head that would be great although apparently Boris Johnson prefers he's tried for war crimes.

 

[Trojina]

It was some called Lindsey Graham (I know nothing about him, I'm only referring to this one thing he said)

Lindsey Graham walks back call for Putin’s assassination

Mr Graham now says Mr Putin should ‘go to jail’

www.independent.co.uk

...but he had to backtrack and say Putin should 'go to jail'. But he just needs to be stopped in whichever way is quickest so it seems a really good idea to me for an insider, an aide or assistant to shoot him. I'm not sure why the US had a problem with what he said unless mass genocide is something they really don't understand.

I imagine there must be plots going on there within Russia, within his closest circle to assassinate him. He is afterall decimating his own country economically as well as losing all the lives of young Russian men who never even knew they were going in to a war, they were told it was just training exercise.

Re 27.1, the one you got, if you asked 'how are we going to stop the Russians' it would look like Yi was saying 'Well don't look at me with your mouth hanging open, you can do it, how are you going to stop the Russians'. By 'you' here I mean 'us' of course since you were asking collectively. It's a good answer in the sense that it shows a magic tortoise we're letting go of, the capacity to act. However it is hard to see how to help Ukraine as individual people now apart from things mentioned above, political pressure, donations, assisting refugees.

 

[Trojina]

Just plugging new thread in Open Space from angleatlantis for real ways we might make a difference

Things to do to Help Ukraine

Hello, like so many others, I am deeply shocked and depressed about the Russian Invasion by Madman and Psychopath Putin into the Ukraine. I wish there were more things that I personally could do to support the Ukrainian people and their government...well there are a couple of things that I...

www.onlineclarity.co.uk

 

[Liselle]

One thing that's worrisome about this is how it appears Putin's found a loophole in plain sight. The whole idea of mutually assured destruction being a deterrent to war among nations with nuclear weapons - fine, but it's allowing him to wage conventional war with utter impunity. Everyone's terrified to intervene directly/militarily because he might take the next step.

Sanctions are having an effect and might work eventually but from the very beginning the news stories I've read say it's a slow process. Meanwhile there's just more death and destruction.

Re: Lindsey Graham, we don't know what people who are criticizing him publicly think privately. Part of the objection might be just that people in his position shouldn't go around shooting their mouths off like that publicly. Plus what good does it do? No one in Russia is going to say, "Oh! What a good idea, Senator Graham, why didn't we think of that!" I mean, anyone who'd be inclined to do such a thing doesn't need a U.S. Senator's endorsement.

 

[Trojina]

Plus what good does it do? No one in Russia is going to say, "Oh! What a good idea, Senator Graham, why didn't we think of that!" I mean, anyone who'd be inclined to do such a thing doesn't need a U.S. Senator's endorsement.

By that logic it's not worth anyone in a public position or not in a public position expressing anything at all because it wouldn't do any good. Is it any good marching with people in our cities with their flags and the local council buildings being lit yellow and blue in support. And the countless journalists and experts on TV giving the views and the Prime Ministers giving their condemnations of Putin's actions?

Didn't he simply voice what many people wonder about and wish for. Though I guess if Boris Johnson said such a thing it would look pretty weak minded, give the impression of a man out of control, like Trump, so yes I'd be shocked if Johnson or other very high profile politicians came out with it however I have seen serious news programmes with journalists discussing how Putin could be 'taken out' by those closest to him and I guess this would include the necessity of killing him as well as locking him up.

It's not ideal a senator should say such a thing I was just surprised he actually had to retract it, what on earth is the point of retracting it I wonder? Diplomatic relations I suppose with er Russia...? which couldn't really get much worse anyway.


Zelensky said (I think it was him, apologies if it wasn't) that it is no good thinking there might be WW3 we are already in WW3.

 

[Liselle]

It's not ideal a senator should say such a thing I was just surprised he actually had to retract it

Yes, maybe, I don't know.

Probably no one wants to give an impression that this is something the U.S. government's officially in favor of. Lindsey Graham holds an official position in the federal government but doesn't officially speak for it, if you see what I mean.

I read the article you linked to and really have no idea how to feel I guess. I'd like it ended without things getting tons worse. That might be delusional, I don't know.