Clarity,
Office 17622,
PO Box 6945,
London.
W1A 6US
United Kingdom
Phone/ Voicemail:
+44 (0)20 3287 3053 (UK)
+1 (561) 459-4758 (US).
lightofreason said:I think you may be a touch out of your depth her.
See post 16 in this thread.bruce_g said:I don’t recall me or anyone else mentioning Catholicism specially, however.
That's depending on what is your image about traditionalist.bruce_g said:It is true that Jesus followed the law of Moses and many Semitic traditions, but he was anything but a traditionalist...I don’t think he was too concerned with traditional thought
bruce_g said:Autumn,
The Bible is funny about divination. On one hand it condemns the practice, but yet they “cast lots” to make important decisions, such as when the apostles had to choose someone to replace Judas....
cjgait said:Actually there is a very close parallel to the Yi Jing found in ancient Judaism, the Urim and Thummim. Google it and you will see what I mean, but in brief it was a binary oracle used by the kings of Israel to help with major decisions and even determine guilt and innocence in certain circumstances.
Unfortunately all traces of it were gone a long, long time ago, so there is no equivalent to the Yi in the Jewish Bible.
Casting lots is a whole different practise, and comes later in the Bible, only found in that one spot in the NT, if I recall.
bruce_g said:I’m not going to debate or argue the point further with you, Jesed. Believe what you wish. That’s the beauty of myth.
listener said:The beauty of myth is that you can bend a story to mean what you wish? I do not think so, I think that is missing the point.
Are you telling I'm arguing silly?bruce_g said:People can argue themselves silly over details, of which they have no way of proving.
bruce_g said:While a Myth may have a specific story and associated meaning, it isn’t limited to that meaning alone. It also speaks to the individual in a way that is significant and meaningful to them. Jesus' story itself is a Myth, a parable, a metaphor.
Not too diferent (even if you like to see it like that. Lawyer/philosopher aren't really too diferent natures. Great philosopher had been lawyersbruce_g said:Jesed and I are obviously two very different people, and our ways of viewing “facts” are likewise different. Jesed is by nature a lawyer; empirical facts are essential to his way of living and understanding. I am more toward a philosopher nature. To me, the empirical facts aren’t as important as the lesson they teach.
There are tools to know that, and there had been used. There are 3 generations of studies about "historic Jesus", some issues can be said with security, some as hipothesis, and some as speculation. Of course, you won't find anything of this studies among the foundamentalist groups of christians, that seems are your reference group (I mean, the kind of group you had contacted in your experience)bruce_g said:What is known as fact about Jesus’ parable or metaphor? Who can prove what he meant by what he said?
Indeed; I hadn't say the oposite. But undertanding the historical context can be (not necesarly, I know) useful to wide your undertanding for your actual life.bruce_g said:If your understanding of it works for you, use it.
hilary said:'Arguing yourself silly' means 'arguing a lot' - arguing until it's pointless, perhaps. A bit like 'arguing until you're blue in the face'. It doesn't actually carry any meaning about how silly or sensible the argument is itself. Odd, but true.
jesed said:Misundertand me again Bruce...
I'm not offended for what you say to Listener. And "prejudice" wasn't refered against me, but about Christianity
Yes, you are not responsaible for my persecution complexes. Only you are so sure about the image you have about others.
Best wishes
bruce_g said:While some hold to the belief that demons are external influences, who invade ones body, I hold to the belief that demons are our own dark energies. Does the religious practice of exorcism work? I believe it can, if the one being exorcised believes it can. The question is, where does that demon go? I believe it goes, as I’ve said, deep into the recesses of that person’s psyche, where it grows and multiplies.
jesed said:Hi Bruce
IAgree with that. I cann't say that there is no external demons for sure...but what can I do say is in the cases I know, it seems most like inner demons.
bruce_g said:. In addition, no one can really kill their demon anyway. They can only create the appearance or illusion that they have. The oppressed demon will retreat into the recesses of the psyche, only to later reappear with greater ferocity and more destructive power than when it first left, i.e. “and the last [state] of that man is worse than the first.”
jesed said:I cann't say that there is no external demons for sure...but what can I do say is in the cases I know, it seems most like inner demons.
Clarity,
Office 17622,
PO Box 6945,
London.
W1A 6US
United Kingdom
Phone/ Voicemail:
+44 (0)20 3287 3053 (UK)
+1 (561) 459-4758 (US).