How do you see 46,6

[nicky_p]

46.7: lop off some of those excess branches and use them to build a fence?

 

[nicky_p]

um, except 46 all lines changing leads to 45

 

[bruce_g]

Umph, change, yes. It makes things so hard to reliably predict!

 

[hilary]

um, except 46 all lines changing leads to 45

Um. Actually to 25. That's why Chris keeps talking about 46 as 'entangling'.

 

[nicky_p]

lol :bag:

 

[dobro p]

I prefer Balkin:

"To push upward into darkness means to push forward blindly, unaware of the hazards that remain ahead.
The time of easy, unforced progress is coming to a close. Do not try to advance without constantly reevaluating your position and exercising the utmost care and discretion..."
he goes on for another paragraph or so.

If you follow Karcher, you'll probably just fall in a hole.

Nah... 46.6 just means ascending into the unknown. It correlates with 46.3. The text attaches no value judgement, cuz there isn't one. If you say it means being blind to future hazards, that's an unjustifiably negative take on the line. I could just as easily say that the line is about faith, or about letting outcomes take care of themselves. 46.6 is about ascent to a higher level, just like the whole hexagram, but in this case, you've lost all sense of knowing where you're going. That's not necessarily a bad thing. In fact, the reason the line counsels not pausing in your efforts is cuz the whole 'not knowing where you're going' approach is a good one in this case.

 

[martin]

Yes, I see all the lines representing a tree's growing process.

1 the seed is earthed
2 the seed sprouts
3 the sprout breaks through to the surface
4 the young tree is blessed through sun and rain
5 the tree grows steadily
6 the tree grows outside its boundaries

I see a different story here that is more in line with Nicky's 'the shrub's progress through the earth'.

I didn't check how it exactly plays out in the lines yet (manana perhaps ), but as I see it the story starts with roots in the earth. It's not about a new tree, the roots are old, from past seasons. So there are no seeds.
The roots symbolize something that we have accumulated in 'past seasons' and that we can now use. The roots are alive, this old something, whatever it is, can grow, it has potential. And it is a kind of platform that is solid, dependable, we can trust it, it is real. We feel 'rooted' when we sense it. Both our feet are on (or even in) the ground.

But we don't know what will become of the roots. There is nothing yet above the surface. Nothing has manifested. There is also no clear purpose or ideal out there. Something pushes from behind, from the depths, but there is no clear 'pull' from the front. The engine is at the rear so to speak.
In 46 we don't try to realize this or that, we rather start with what we have or are, develop that and see what comes of it. We don't know where this root potential will lead us. And we don't care too much. We will see.
Except in line 6. In that line we start to worry (too much) about the goals that we might or might not reach. I think ..
My guess would be that in line 6 we indeed (like in Nicky's second version) still don't see anything above the surface and that is what worries is.

 

[lightofreason]

Interesting that 47 is an enclosed tree, yes?

No. 47 pairs with 48 in the traditional sequence - so there is not even rotation. 45 pairs with 46 in the traditional sequence. In the binary 46 pairs with 18 (and so the entanglement of worms in that bowl ;-))

The entanglement focus allows for roots to get entangled, branches to get entangled etc in that the entanglement covers any format - be it tree roots, computer cables, phone cords, people, collectives etc.

The generic form is a context of cultivation in which is operating devotion (or the 'darkness', fear, depending on mode of interpretation ;-))

Emotionally you can read it as with anticipation of wrong doing comes fear - and THAT will drive one to get entangled with others for protection.

From the positive angle, we get entangled to move 'up' in the world - but too much and it can get messy,corrupt, difficult to dis-entangle. 18 covers this in that it focuses on perpetual interactions to avoid neglect that can lead to over-entanglements etc.

OTOH In 47 the focus is more on fitting into a context with the analogy to enclosing a tree to force its roots to go deep. This enclosure can be willing or forced. It pairs with 06 in the binary format, showing a focus on issues of compromise.

Chris.

 

[mudpie]

Nah... 46.6 just means ascending into the unknown. It correlates with 46.3. The text attaches no value judgement, cuz there isn't one. .......

but in this case, you've lost all sense of knowing where you're going. That's not necessarily a bad thing.

In fact, the reason the line counsels not pausing in your efforts is cuz the whole 'not knowing where you're going' approach is a good one in this case.

I agree with the above except for the last line. It may NOT be a good approach to go forward blindly, even though in some cases it might be. The idea is to acknowledge that you are not aware of what you are getting into. If you are ready and willing for an undefined adventure, go for it. If not, reconsider.

I think I wrote once on this board that I got this line when I asked if I should make the trip to my favorite indoor swimming pool and hottub. It's a great place to relax, but the traffic is wearying......46.6.....The traffic was fine, but when i got there, the pool and hottub were full of little children having a pool birthday party. UGH. NOt relaxing at all. An adventure I could have done without. The dear old Yi was warning me that I didnt know what I was in for. I should have called ahead.

 

[bruce_g]

I see a different story here that is more in line with Nicky's 'the shrub's progress through the earth'.

I didn't check how it exactly plays out in the lines yet (manana perhaps ), but as I see it the story starts with roots in the earth. It's not about a new tree, the roots are old, from past seasons. So there are no seeds.
The roots symbolize something that we have accumulated in 'past seasons' and that we can now use. The roots are alive, this old something, whatever it is, can grow, it has potential. And it is a kind of platform that is solid, dependable, we can trust it, it is real. We feel 'rooted' when we sense it. Both our feet are on (or even in) the ground.

But we don't know what will become of the roots. There is nothing yet above the surface. Nothing has manifested. There is also no clear purpose or ideal out there. Something pushes from behind, from the depths, but there is no clear 'pull' from the front. The engine is at the rear so to speak.
In 46 we don't try to realize this or that, we rather start with what we have or are, develop that and see what comes of it. We don't know where this root potential will lead us. And we don't care too much. We will see.
Except in line 6. In that line we start to worry (too much) about the goals that we might or might not reach. I think ..
My guess would be that in line 6 we indeed (like in Nicky's second version) still don't see anything above the surface and that is what worries is.

I didn't mean to say that what I described was literally "it", the last word in 46. I presented it as something to consider, and it's how I visualize it, as being akin to internal will power, which originates in the root system, but presses upward. In human terms, I see 46 as will or drive.

My analogy comes from a mentor many years ago. I was a young buck who had made a name for himself, full of piss and vinegar and bucking for the sales manager position. There was nothing I couldn't do, according to my ambition. He patiently explained to me that ambition was like a tree, and that in order to be strong and endure it had to grow wide as well as high. I heard what he said but I didn't listen (young bucks seldom do). “If this company wouldn't recognize my ability, then I'll go to a competitor who would.” And so I did. And not only as a sales manager but as general manager – my first GM gig. All I can do now is to look back and laugh, and wish I’d taken Larry's wise council a little more to heart, for he was right. Was it the end of me or my career? No, in fact it turned out to be a hugely valuable learning experience. But it was way more than I had bargained for. 15-20 years later, I was telling the same story to other eager beavers, but did they listen? 'Course not. And perhaps better that they didn’t. Ambition, though sometimes blind, is still better than sitting on your roots.

I have to say, the root system you describe sounds very strange to me. Roots grow beneath the earth only in proportion to what is growing above.

 

[bruce_g]

No. 47 pairs with 48 in the traditional sequence - so there is not even rotation. 45 pairs with 46 in the traditional sequence. In the binary 46 pairs with 18 (and so the entanglement of worms in that bowl ;-))

The entanglement focus allows for roots to get entangled, branches to get entangled etc in that the entanglement covers any format - be it tree roots, computer cables, phone cords, people, collectives etc.

The generic form is a context of cultivation in which is operating devotion (or the 'darkness', fear, depending on mode of interpretation ;-))

Emotionally you can read it as with anticipation of wrong doing comes fear - and THAT will drive one to get entangled with others for protection.

From the positive angle, we get entangled to move 'up' in the world - but too much and it can get messy,corrupt, difficult to dis-entangle. 18 covers this in that it focuses on perpetual interactions to avoid neglect that can lead to over-entanglements etc.

OTOH In 47 the focus is more on fitting into a context with the analogy to enclosing a tree to force its roots to go deep. This enclosure can be willing or forced. It pairs with 06 in the binary format, showing a focus on issues of compromise.

Chris.

Good grief, Chris. I never said 46 paired with 47. You can not think outside of your own box.

 

[dobro p]

I agree with the above except for the last line. It may NOT be a good approach to go forward blindly, even though in some cases it might be. The idea is to acknowledge that you are not aware of what you are getting into. If you are ready and willing for an undefined adventure, go for it. If not, reconsider.

I think I wrote once on this board that I got this line when I asked if I should make the trip to my favorite indoor swimming pool and hottub. It's a great place to relax, but the traffic is wearying......46.6.....The traffic was fine, but when i got there, the pool and hottub were full of little children having a pool birthday party. UGH. NOt relaxing at all. An adventure I could have done without. The dear old Yi was warning me that I didnt know what I was in for. I should have called ahead.

I'm sticking to my reading of the last part of 46.6. It says (my rendition): 'advantage toward not pausing's firmness'.

I read that as: it's to your advantage not to pause in carrying out what you think is best.

And how do I square that with your unhappy experience with the swimming pool? Well, I think you got what you deserved for asking unnecessary questions about going to the pool. lol

 

[bruce_g]

I agree with the above except for the last line. It may NOT be a good approach to go forward blindly, even though in some cases it might be. The idea is to acknowledge that you are not aware of what you are getting into. If you are ready and willing for an undefined adventure, go for it. If not, reconsider.

Completely agrees.

 

[martin]

I have to say, the root system you describe sounds very strange to me. Roots grow beneath the earth only in proportion to what is growing above.

Lol, yes, that's where the analogy goes wrong.
A better analogy perhaps (but every analogy has shortcomings) is that of a writer that is writing a book. One day he will (he hopes) finish the book and have it published but until then his work remains hidden for the public and perhaps even for his family and friends. It doesn't surface until then, it remains underground.
But, like you, I'm not saying that this is the only true story for this hexagram. Your take on it makes sense to me too.
And your first GM gig seems to fit in both ways. It's line 6, I would say, you tried to 'surface' too early.

 

[bruce_g]

Lol, yes, that's where the analogy goes wrong.
A better analogy perhaps (but every analogy has shortcomings) is that of a writer that is writing a book. One day he will (he hopes) finish the book and have it published but until then his work remains hidden for the public and perhaps even for his family and friends. It doesn't surface until then, it remains underground.
But, like you, I'm not saying that this is the only true story for this hexagram. Your take on it makes sense to me too.
And your first GM gig seems to fit in both ways. It's line 6, I would say, you tried to 'surface' too early.

mmmm, that sounds like 36 though.

Yes, I noticed that most of what you said (up there) was in aggreement with my story.

I had this sci-fi picture of these very old worm-like creeping roots living entirely undeground. LOL

 

[Sparhawk]

I have to say, the root system you describe sounds very strange to me. Roots grow beneath the earth only in proportion to what is growing above.

Tell me, you've never grown bamboo in your garden, have you?? I have and the world is upside down for that type of grass... It took me three years to get rid of the roots after I cut down the grove as it was invading my neighbor's lawn. He almost sued me to pay for the clean up of his side... Crazy plant, that one... My fault for not Hex60 the little shots when I planted them...

L

 

[Trojina]

Its weird how I never think of a tree at all with 46, why I don't know, the imagery is there alright. Sometimes we just don't see whats in front of us So the way the threads developed has been very educational for me, lol.

I always associate the lines with the bestowing of honour and patronage from those above, its all this Mount Chi the King is offering etc. I've trouble relating it to the tree analogy, seems I've always looked at it in a kind of political way. I guess it largley tends to come up for me when theres been a situation of gaining some kind of recognition or help from someone in a 'higher' position. I've taken this political perspective (unconsciously really) by Wilhelms stressing its the right time to see those in authority, to reveal what you can do, to not be afraid. For Wilhelm at least its a rise in reputation, 'fame' is mentioned in line 4, a rise from obscurity to prominence. This is what he seems to stress in the Judgement at least.

A tree growing is organic, it unfolds in its own time given the right conditions. Yet what i'm reading of 46 its about not just organic growth but seeking out those who can further you, a fortunate time to be a bit 'pushy' ? Maybe not a contradiction ?

Am I alone in seeing 46 as sometimes being like a bit of political manoevering to spotlight oneself, hmmm that would lead to the entanglements and the needed disentangling of 25 I suppose.

 

[bruce_g]

Tell me, you've never grown bamboo in your garden, have you?? I have and the world is upside down for that type of grass... It took me three years to get rid of the roots after I cut down the grove as it was invading my neighbor's lawn. He almost sued me to pay for the clean up of his side... Crazy plant, that one... My fault for not Hex60 the little shots when I planted them...
L

I know nothing about bamboo, but that's interesting. I have reeds growing out back which looks a bit like bamboo, irrigated by the washing machine drainage. They withstand very hard winds by clumping themselves close together. Strength in numbers. Maybe hex 7 or 8?

View attachment 117

 

[bruce_g]

Its weird how I never think of a tree at all with 46, why I don't know, the imagery is there alright. Sometimes we just don't see whats in front of us So the way the threads developed has been very educational for me, lol.

I always associate the lines with the bestowing of honour and patronage from those above, its all this Mount Chi the King is offering etc. I've trouble relating it to the tree analogy, seems I've always looked at it in a kind of political way. I guess it largley tends to come up for me when theres been a situation of gaining some kind of recognition or help from someone in a 'higher' position. I've taken this political perspective (unconsciously really) by Wilhelms stressing its the right time to see those in authority, to reveal what you can do, to not be afraid. For Wilhelm at least its a rise in reputation, 'fame' is mentioned in line 4, a rise from obscurity to prominence. This is what he seems to stress in the Judgement at least.

A tree growing is organic, it unfolds in its own time given the right conditions. Yet what i'm reading of 46 its about not just organic growth but seeking out those who can further you, a fortunate time to be a bit 'pushy' ? Maybe not a contradiction ?

Am I alone in seeing 46 as sometimes being like a bit of political manoevering to spotlight oneself, hmmm that would lead to the entanglements and the needed disentangling of 25 I suppose.

Vertical ascent is vertical ascent, whether in a tree or human.

Maneuvering - that's interesting. Had not thought of that, but I could see what you’re saying. And, “pushy”? Most definitely. There’s that 34 to watch for, though.

Btw, thanks for starting this thread.

 

[Sparhawk]

I know nothing about bamboo, but that's interesting. I have reeds growing out back which looks a bit like bamboo, irrigated by the washing machine drainage. They withstand very hard winds by clumping themselves close together. Strength in numbers. Maybe hex 7 or 8?

Reeds? I'm surrounded by reeds. I live in a marshy part of New Jersey and the darn things are everywhere. There is even a state commission to curb the growth of phragmites (reeds) using defoliating agents. THEY ARE IMPOSSIBLE TO KILL!! Here is a picture I shot last year of a plane fumigating the reeds...

If you ever plant bamboo, make sure you dig a ditch, at least two feet deep, around the place where you want the bamboo to be and build a brick or cinder-block wall inside it. Then you plant the bamboo. I didn't...

L

 

[heylise]

"Shadowy ascent. Beneficial for incessant determination."
(Shadowy or netherworld, dark, obscure, deep, abstruse)
I think 46.6 is about ascending where you don't know the road. There are no rules to go by, no experience, no others who can tell you about it. So the only way is to use your intuition, instincts, hunches, or in other ways, what the gods tell you. Or maybe the phone in Listener's case, a "voice from elsewhere".

Sheng is a measure, a salary was given in a certain number of sheng rice. Many sheng meant one had a good position, So an important meaning of Sheng, ascending, was advancing in status. Of course that is just one meaning, it branches out (to stay with the tree) to the entire concept of ascending.

So if you are in a situation, where your ascent is not clear, there is no outlined road, no way to know what to do or where to go, then "ask the gods and keep asking all the time".

The fanyao 18.6 talks about someone who does 'not serve king or lord. Honoring one's affairs high'. There too one should not serve anyone/anything else, but find one's own way.

LiSe

 

[bruce_g]

Reeds? I'm surrounded by reeds. I live in a marshy part of New Jersey and the darn things are everywhere. There is even a state commission to curb the growth of phragmites (reeds) using defoliating agents. THEY ARE IMPOSSIBLE TO KILL!! Here is a picture I shot last year of a plane fumigating the reeds...

If you ever plant bamboo, make sure you dig a ditch, at least two feet deep, around the place where you want the bamboo to be and build a brick or cinder-block wall inside it. Then you plant the bamboo. I didn't...

L

You mean, enclose the trees? Good idea. Have seen house foundations ruined by weeping willow roots, as well. Can be intrusive buggers.

Are you near Clifton? Or have I asked that before?

 

[Sparhawk]

Are you near Clifton? Or have I asked that before?

No, Clifton is almost in the NE corner of NJ, close to NYC and I'm in Salem County, the SW corner of NJ, over the Delaware River, across from DE. Beautiful sunsets!!

L

 

[bruce_g]

No, Clifton is almost in the NE corner of NJ, close to NYC and I'm in Salem County, the SW corner of NJ, over the Delaware River, across from DE. Beautiful sunsets!!

L

Oh, one of those southern boys, huh? I've only passed through there at night, never got to enjoy the scenery.

 

[mudpie]

Well, I think you got what you deserved for asking unnecessary questions about going to the pool. lol

so much for your judgement. Oh yes, i know there are those snooty ones amongst us who consider certain questions not to be sufficiently lofty for the Yi's consideration.

And they 'tsk tsk' at the unlettered fools like me, a mere commoner, who dares to impose such trifling nonsense on the I ching

ALL I CAN SAY IS THAT THE JOKE IS ON YOU! you miss out. bro. what a shame. but at least you get to feel righteous...and, well, snooty ; )

 

[Trojina]

I always like to hear real life experience of a hex or line. I mean I reckon if a million people all recorded all their experiences with each configuration then wouldn't that be as good and useful to understanding the Yi as delving into ancient symbolism. I'm not saying its a better way to come by understanding than research and dictionaries etc but I think its often overlooked. Now I tend to look in the hexagram index here next to Wilhelm, Karcher, Brad, Lise etc because I like to see the practical application.

Anyone else got any 46,6 experiences ?

 

[ewald]

Now I tend to look in the hexagram index here next to Wilhelm, Karcher, Brad, Lise etc because I like to see the practical application.

I thought these threads say a bit about the experience of 46.6:

http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/friends/showthread.php?t=1837
http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/friends/showthread.php?t=1362
http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/friends/showthread.php?t=572
http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/friends/showthread.php?t=2485
http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/friends/showthread.php?t=2473
http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/friends/showthread.php?t=1813

Half of these are about situations where one is just starting some undertaking, where the querent is wondering how to go on. In these, it seems like the situation is unclear (in the dark), as things often are in the beginning, and there is no particular reason to stop, but the lack of clarity might result in that.

It seems that the other situations are more evolved, but for some reason lack clarity as well. From what I can see, stopping the situation seems like an option, while having it slip away is as well. But persisting is too, and that might be the best option.

 

[Trojina]

Thanks for the links but often theres nothing about the line you want when you've done the search. Like here the 2nd and 3rd link say nothing about 46,6 ? I'll look again.

Yes it seems theres several ways to go with this line, persisting seeming the best option (or not )

 

[ewald]

Like here the 2nd and 3rd link say nothing about 46,6 ? I'll look again.

2nd
"I asked about one other society I am very interested in (careful consideration) and received 46 top line change to 18."

3rd
"What do I need to know about my relationship with Mr. X? Hex 46.6 to Hex 18 "

Indeed it's not very detailed, and you need some sort of CSI mindset to derive information. But information is there.