Just for the record. How will 1: Trump do. 2: Biden do ( in November. )

[Lavalamp]

Hey folks. So about 60 days out from the November US Elections.
I had a moment of clarity today so I did some castings. My 2 political readings - just for the record.
I thought they were clear enough I should document them..

1: How will Trump do in November?
60.4 > 58
58 - The context is a lot of interaction, talking, discussion.
60.4 - Legge: There will be progress and success.
Wilhelm/Baynes: Contented limitation. Success.
Blofeld: Peaceful restraint -- success!
Liu: Peaceful limitation. Success.
Ritsema/Karcher: Quiet Articulating Growing.

2: How will Biden do in November?
57.2.4.5.6 > 62 Too many lines.
57 The Influencer evolves into 62 The Small Pass.
62 - "Permitting Small Affairs. Not permitting Great Affairs.
The flying bird leaves behind its sound: it is not fit above, it is fit below."

I think the readings say 1: Trump will be successful. 2: Biden is not fit for the job, better to stay below.

I kind of had an epiphany that 57 the man with the seal, the penetrating wind
is a man of official position, an influencer, like a politician, or a motivational speaker,
leader of some kind. The blowing wind.

- LL

 

[Trojina]

You will always think trump will be successful in any cast you do so it doesn't mean very much does it !

You basically post here only to say trump will be successful as you are a trump supporter. Why do you bother ?

 

[Trojina]

And if trump does win don't think it's some great affirmation of your divinatory skills will you, that would be a ridiculous conceit given there are only 2 candidates !

Whatever anyone predicts given there are 2 candidates they stand a 50/50 chance of being right so please don't preen and parade if you are right - you stand a 50/50 chance whatever you say.

I thought we had enough of this pro Trump nonsense on this forum

 

[Trojina]

I think the readings say 1: Trump will be successful. 2: Biden is not fit for the job, better to stay below.

You must be delusional if you see trump as 'fit' for office, completely delusional.

 

[Matali]

For Joe Biden - 57.2 : Priests and magicians are needed in large numbers. Fortune. No blame !!!!
Sometimes we are dealing with hidden enemies, elusive influences that remain nestled in the darkest angles and, from there, exert a suggested effect on beings. In such cases. it is necessary to pursue these elements to the most secret corners to establish what influences they are - this is the role of priests - and to dismiss them - it is the role of magicians. Because of their anonymous nature, these activities require a particularly tireless energy that nevertheless finds its reward. For once such uncontrollable influences have been brought to light and stigmatized, they lose their power over men (Wengu Tartarie) !!!

Is it true, Trojina, that there is a lot of pro-Trump in this forum? Trump who hates the Chinese so much... and almost everyone!! It's time to pray to Yi's magicians for Joe Biden to become president...

 

[hilary]

Not a lot, Matali, don't worry.

I'm going to assume that this thread will become a conversation about politics with scant reference to the Yijing, and move it to Open Space now.

 

[Lavalamp]

You must be delusional if you see trump as 'fit' for office, completely delusional.

Sometimes Trojina, I think you really do not believe in the Yi as an independent agency.
Rather you think it as more of a Rorschach test, in which you simply see what you want to.
That limits the knowledge you can receive to what you already believe.
Now in my view the Yi is of course a window into the Universe into which we can gaze, but that transcends the limitations of the individual asking the questions. Transcends time and space. If it did not or could not - well what is the point?
There would be no objective meaning to any line or hexagram you get.

This seem to be your philosophy, and you project it onto others when you don't like what you hear.
That the Yi only means what you want it to. That has not been my experience, and that is not how I approach it.
I think I'm kind of more of a true believer than you are in that regard, I see the Yi more as a mystical, spiritual agency.

- LL

 

[Lavalamp]

For Joe Biden - 57.2 : Priests and magicians are needed in large numbers. Fortune. No blame !!!!

Well - what was the question?
He is certainly surrounded by many of such people right now. They are helpful and you can't blame him for that.

- LL

 

[Lavalamp]

I'm going to assume that this thread will become a conversation about politics with scant reference to the Yijing, and move it to Open Space now.

Hillary, burying my post out of public view is a bit cancel culture, isn't it? My post was ONLY about the reading and I certainly did not editorialize politically. That was Trojina's response - but that's on her. You could give her a warning.
A reading will in time be helpful for persons searching the forum for what certain readings mean.
Canceling it from public view is I think an over reaction.

- LL

 

[hilary]

'Out of public view'? This forum's just as public as Shared Readings. 'Cancel culture' moving a thread between forums??

 

[Matali]

57.2 is a line from your draw...Anyway, I hope Trojina is right but the 60.4 for Trump is worrying...

 

[Trojina]

The thing is if a 100 people cast a question on who is going to win the election (which does happen here) there will be a 100 different answers so why would any one person's answer mean any more than the rest ? I mean I don't take someone else's answer as 'the truth', it's just their cast. If they are under the delusion that somehow they are asking from an 'objective' standpoint they likely won't even be able to see that, just as LL is completely blind to his own bias and projects it on to others. So why would a stranger's cast make you worried, it could be both casts refer to his process anyway. In 60.4 Yi was saying 'oh good you're holding back a bit' and then in the 57 cast it shows him asking the same question over and over and over because he has asked this question over and over and every time he posts his answers any alternative interpretation is pounced on and argued with.

Hillary, burying my post out of public view is a bit cancel culture, isn't it? My post was ONLY about the reading and I certainly did not editorialize politically. That was Trojina's response - but that's on her. You could give her a warning.

Hilary has got one 'l'. How can 'Open Space' (the clue is in the name) be 'out of public view' ? It's every bit as much in public view as any other part of the forum. It's not just about this thread anyway, all your pro Trump threads end up the same.

A reading will in time be helpful for persons searching the forum for what certain readings mean.

Hardly. As I said with 2 options anyone has a chance of being 50% right so your readings won't show 'what certain readings mean' at all.

Canceling it from public view is I think an over reaction.

It is still in public view, where do you think we are, the cellar ? 'Cancelling' has 2 ls BTW you are having a bit of trouble with Ls LL.

 

[hilary]

(I think 'cancelling' probably has one 'l' in US English.)

 

[Trojina]

Well just because they can't spell doesn't mean we have to follow.

 

[Lavalamp]

The thing is if a 100 people cast a question on who is going to win the election (which does happen here) there will be a 100 different answers so why would any one person's answer mean any more than the rest ?

Again Trojina, you demonstrate that to you, the Yi is no more than a Rorschach test, meaning only what you want it to mean. Your position is clearly the Yi is not an objective window through which we are permitted (or not) to gaze, the Yi cannot divine the future, it can only reflect our own prejudices back at us.
Kind of a faithless philosophy, for one that has studied the Yi for seems like a while.

Whatever anyone predicts given there are 2 candidates they stand a 50/50 chance of being right so please don't preen and parade if you are right - you stand a 50/50 chance whatever you say.

I think differently. To me the Yi more than a game of chance, it is the view from a higher perspective than our own.
And to me a reading can quite often not be what I wanted to hear at all ( and has been on more than one occasion.)
I think the Universe can and quite often does see things differently than I do, and it requires discipline to teach one's heart the humility to accept that sometimes one might be wrong in one's understanding, about an issue, about a person, about one's approach to things, about anything.

The Christian prays "Thy will be done." It is a position of personal surrender. To approach the Yi with view that you are all knowing and the Yi exists only to reflect your bias back at you is a reversal of how one should be approaching what teaches us, I think. It is importunate. In Hex 4, a good way to have your teacher not want to teach you anything.

- LL

 

[hilary]

It's perfectly clear to all readers that Trojina is not saying what you claim she is saying. Moving on.

You do, in fact, use your own understanding of the world to interpret your readings. You can't avoid this. For example, you have just received a line about 'peaceful measures' about Trump, and seen no hint of irony or conditionality.

 

[Trojina]

Just some of the threads where you've got on your pro Trump soapbox LL, no one is actually able to have a different view without you accusing them of seeing what they want to see.

Trump, Charlottesville etc

Would it be possible to get back to discussing readings?.......... It's probably important to differentiate between what we personally hope to see happen with Trump and other such 'very fine people', and readings talking specifically about the outcome of this particular report's publication...

www.onlineclarity.co.uk

Will Trump Be President Beyond 2020? 53.1 > 37.

So I actually went back to 1991 and Visonary Software's "Synchronicity" app to cast this reading, using an Emulator program with Mac OS 6.7. Jeez, in 1991 I was still in the recording studio and hadn't quite moved into TV Broadcasting yet. Almost a life time ago. The Syncronicity program is an...

www.onlineclarity.co.uk

How Will Trump Do In The November elections? 17 Unchanging.

People are pretty shell shocked with riots in the streets, violent political action groups and looters, political officials unable or unwilling to end the violence. Two lawyers one a Democrat Council member in NYC was caught handing our Molotov Cocktails to rioters and firebombing a police car...

www.onlineclarity.co.uk

which was continued here

US Politics (from 'How Will Trump Do In The November elections? 17 Unchanging')

Just today while browsing the internet I came across a story that back in 2015 an American, disgruntled even then with the crop of candidates, wrote to Queen Elizabeth asking her to take us back. :rofl: She actually replied (!), declining to intercede in the affairs of a sovereign nation. 👑 🇬🇧...

www.onlineclarity.co.uk

Oh and then there's you on China

US-China Relations: 53.2.4.5.6 to 32, 11 uc, and 56.4.6 to 15

Many in the tarot/psychic community are seeing that Trump is attacking China constantly, i.e. COVID-19 to trade relations. I feel that this will have a lasting effect on Chinese communities globally. Why is Trump attacking China? 53.2.4.5.6 Gradual Progress (Development) to 32 Lasting...

www.onlineclarity.co.uk

How many more of these do we have to have from you and which election reading are you going to go with ? And when are you going to stop using this forum as a pro Trump platform and before you laugh and say it's hardly a platform you were rather upset to be 'hidden from view' in 'Open Space'. Actually it's not exactly the forum you use as a pro Trump platform it's Yi you use as a pro Trump platform/diving board. I wonder how often you have actually asked Yi questions on Trump's re election, possibly very many but you only post the answers that you feel support your view. We know what happens when we ask Yi the same question over and over, we stop getting clear answers. I do wonder how many more trump threads you're going to post before November.

 

[Trojina]

The Christian prays "Thy will be done." It is a position of personal surrender. To approach the Yi with view that you are all knowing and the Yi exists only to reflect your bias back at you is a reversal of how one should be approaching what teaches us, I think. It is importunate. In Hex 4, a good way to have your teacher not want to teach you anything.

Yuk, drawing both Yi and Christianity under your cloak of delusion

BTW someone pointed out to me the other day a passage in Revelation 13.5 which is as follows

"The beast was given a mouth to utter proud words and blasphemies and to exercise his authority for 42 months."

They pointed out that Trump had been in office 42 months as of mid July. It does sound like trump blaspheming with his sickening posturing with the bible when he's barely ever looked at one, proud. However it doesn't say anything much about the beast being quite so ridiculous as trump so I'm not so sure and 'beast' does rather dignify him beyond his absurdity but nonetheless I was quite struck when someone pointed this out to me.

 

[IrfanK]

Haha. Maybe just toss a coin. Use a coin with one of the Presidents on it as heads, Lincoln or Washington or whoever. If the qualities of that guy matches the candidate, you've got your winner. Don't use an English coin, or Queen Elizabeth will come back and re-colonize you. If the side with "In God We Trust" comes up, you can expect a theocracy.

 

[Trojina]

Hey folks. So about 60 days out from the November US Elections.
I had a moment of clarity today so I did some castings. My 2 political readings - just for the record.
I thought they were clear enough I should document them..

I think the readings say 1: Trump will be successful. 2: Biden is not fit for the job, better to stay below.

I kind of had an epiphany that 57 the man with the seal, the penetrating wind
is a man of official position, an influencer, like a politician, or a motivational speaker,
leader of some kind. The blowing wind

Well you were wrong.


I'm not trying to be mean but you did so many casts here all supporting your political POV you could update them now we know who is president.

 

[Trojina]

How Will Trump Do In The November elections? 17 Unchanging.

People are pretty shell shocked with riots in the streets, violent political action groups and looters, political officials unable or unwilling to end the violence. Two lawyers one a Democrat Council member in NYC was caught handing our Molotov Cocktails to rioters and firebombing a police car...

www.onlineclarity.co.uk

that one got shut down


then continued in Open Space

US Politics (from 'How Will Trump Do In The November elections? 17 Unchanging')

Just today while browsing the internet I came across a story that back in 2015 an American, disgruntled even then with the crop of candidates, wrote to Queen Elizabeth asking her to take us back. :rofl: She actually replied (!), declining to intercede in the affairs of a sovereign nation. 👑 🇬🇧...

www.onlineclarity.co.uk

So that 17uc thread can't be updated from SR but can be from Open Space

 

[hilary]

we know who is president.

Alas, not everyone knows yet. Better wait until whatever-the-date-is... should be December 14th, I think.

 

[Trojina]

We do know it's just some have a problem facing reality and so concoct unsubstantiated stories of fraud etc

 

[rosada]

Hindsight but still...

How will Trump do in November? 60.4 - 58
60.4 Peaceful Limitation.
His time in office is limited - not by a violent government coup or take over, but by a peaceful election.

But leading to 58. warns us he wont be going quietly. No! He joins with his lawyer friends for discussion and practice and filing lawsuits etc.

How will Biden do? 57.2.4.5.6 - 62?

57. Success through what is small. - Success from counting every vote.

57.2. Good fortune. No blame. - He won. No fraud.

57.4. Remorse vanishes. During the hunt 3 kinds of game are caught. - Maybe refers to other Rebuplicans who were defeated in this election?

57.5 Perseverance brings good fortune. Remorse vanishes. Nothing that does not further.
No beginning but an end. Before the change, three days. After the change, three days. Good fortune. - Encouraging for surviving any recount. Not sorry cause a recount only helps him. An end to the election process. The three days could refer to the votes that come in before and after election day. It suggests it will all end well for Biden.

57.6 Penetration under the bed. He loses his property and his ax. Perseverance brings misfortune.
This is disturbing. Is it saying that as the absurd claims of voter fraud continue the Trump supporters become more emboldened thus damaging Biden's ability to govern - even though he won??

62. Attention to Detail/ Preponderance of the Small.
Again a hexagram that seems to highlight the focus on counting all the votes.

So to my biased pro-Biden mind these hexagrams were saying that Trump is stopped, loses, but wont concede, keeps playing at being President elect ("discussion and practice") and all in all tries to mess Biden's victory up with a lot of voter fraud and recount stuff that forces Biden - the newly elected president - to focus on these Details, perhaps frustrating his ability to focus on more important issues as he looks ahead to taking on the new job? Maybe "Small things can be done. Great things can not be done" is a warning that the Senate remains in Republican hands and wont support his agenda.

 

[Lavalamp]

Hindsight but still...

How will Trump do in November? 60.4 - 58
60.4 Peaceful Limitation.
His time in office is limited - not by a violent government coup or take over, but by a peaceful election.

But leading to 58. warns us he wont be going quietly. No! He joins with his lawyer friends for discussion and practice and filing lawsuits etc.

How will Biden do? 57.2.4.5.6 - 62?

57. Success through what is small. - Success from counting every vote.

57.2. Good fortune. No blame. - He won. No fraud.

57.4. Remorse vanishes. During the hunt 3 kinds of game are caught. - Maybe refers to other Rebuplicans who were defeated in this election?

57.5 Perseverance brings good fortune. Remorse vanishes. Nothing that does not further.
No beginning but an end. Before the change, three days. After the change, three days. Good fortune. - Encouraging for surviving any recount. Not sorry cause a recount only helps him. An end to the election process. The three days could refer to the votes that come in before and after election day. It suggests it will all end well for Biden.

57.6 Penetration under the bed. He loses his property and his ax. Perseverance brings misfortune.
This is disturbing. Is it saying that as the absurd claims of voter fraud continue the Trump supporters become more emboldened thus damaging Biden's ability to govern - even though he won??

62. Attention to Detail/ Preponderance of the Small.
Again a hexagram that seems to highlight the focus on counting all the votes.

So to my biased pro-Biden mind these hexagrams were saying that Trump is stopped, loses, but wont concede, keeps playing at being President elect ("discussion and practice") and all in all tries to mess Biden's victory up with a lot of voter fraud and recount stuff that forces Biden - the newly elected president - to focus on these Details, perhaps frustrating his ability to focus on more important issues as he looks ahead to taking on the new job? Maybe "Small things can be done. Great things can not be done" is a warning that the Senate remains in Republican hands and wont support his agenda.

Well when the election is certified and the electors have voted, be happy to post mortem my readings.
That is the point of doing them, to become better at it. It's still premature though, none have been certified yet and Gore V Bush took 37 days to resolve. But sure, let's revisit in a few weeks.
Your way of reading right here does not exactly follow protocol (read the lines less than 4, the change hex is context not outcome,etc.) but that is ok too.

But let me point out when I asked "How will Trump do in November?"
Every major interpretation of 60.4 says "success." It is hardly bias - as some snark - to read what the lines plainly say.
Legge: There will be progress and success.
Wilhelm/Baynes: Contented limitation. Success.
Blofeld: Peaceful restraint -- success!
Liu: Peaceful limitation. Success.

Should it turn out Trump does not win the election, we have then to square the lines.
Is Legge and Wilhelm and everyone else just plain wrong?
Perhaps the Yi is saying even in defeat - he was successful. This is certainly arguable. In defeat he received more votes than any past President in history. He received more non-white votes than any Republican President since 1960.
And the polls were very very wrong, there was no "Blue Wave: in fact every Republican incumbent in the Senate won reelection and Democrats lost many seats in the House, under an avalanche of 16 new Republican Women to Congress.
And Trump fundamentally realigned the political parties in the US, making the Republican Party the party of the middle and working class, etc.

Anyway, we can post mortem later when the results are more definitive.

- LL

 

[rosada]

Maybe then...
In the context of 58. When it comes to joining together with "friends" (citizens) for discussion and practice (campaigning and voting), Trump's success is limited.

 

[Liselle]

How will Biden do in November?
57.2.4.5.6 > 62

Not sure exactly how to explain it, but if this reading extended beyond November - it sounded to me like transition in general - here's an article about how events have and are shaping things. Brought to mind the reading, a little bit at least.

The events of the last two days have changed Biden’s presidency in profound and unpredictable ways. (Published 2021)

www.nytimes.com

Excerpts:

The events of the last 48 hours — Tuesday’s Democratic takeover of the Senate and Wednesday’s mob violence at the Capitol by President Trump supporters — fundamentally altered the trajectory of President-elect Joseph R. Biden Jr.’s presidency two weeks before his hand touches the bible.

Once chatty, malaprop-prone and accessible, Mr. Biden has transformed himself into a figure of distance and dignity, taking advantage of the spotlight-hogging futility of Mr. Trump’s attempts to overturn the election. He has been able to quietly assemble a team and plan for the battles ahead.

[...]

Many in Mr. Biden’s circle believe he has two years to jam through Democratic priorities, starting with his pledge to pass a $2,000 payment to Americans to ease the economic hardship of the pandemic. That tension — whether to go it alone or wait for compromise — is likely to define his presidency.

Wonder if it especially touches on line 6?
'Subtly penetrating under the bed,
Losing your property and axe.
Constancy, pitfall.'

I thought he wielded a little bit of an axe from the very beginning - at least I don't remember previous presidents-elect using signage saying "Office of the President-Elect" and whatnot. He seems to have become even more axe-ful in the last day or two, sharply denouncing Trump.

References to compromise and bipartisanship might also sound like 57.

There is nothing quite like huddling behind barricaded doors with an armed mob roaming the hallways to rekindle the dying embers of bipartisanship. But nobody expects it to last.

(We can hope it lasts, I guess.)